Special Guest Expert - Daniel Harner: Video automatically transcribed by Sonix

Special Guest Expert - Daniel Harner: this mp4 video file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Daniel Aaron:
What does it take to create a vibrant, thriving life? First, the sad news is that Thoreau was right. Most people are leading quiet lives of desperation, lacking in meaning, fulfillment, and vitality. But we choose more. We choose to create extraordinary lives and the art of vibrant living. Show entertains you with inspiration, empowerment and education to create your life into a masterpiece. It's time. Let's vibe up. Aloha y'all. Welcome to the show. I am Daniel Aaron, your host. This is the Art of Vibrant Living show. And oh boy oh boy do we have an exciting show for you today. First though, please would you do something for us all? By which I mean you, me, the entire world, which is make a commitment that today you will not be just entertained. There will be entertainment. You will also be empowered in that requires you to say, I'm going to do something with this. You don't have to, though. I guarantee you there are going to be some beautiful gold nuggets that come to you today from our guest, and they work way better if you implement them, try them out, put them to practice in your life. So you up for it? Okay, cool. On that note, our guest today, uh, been waiting for this show for ages, doctor Daniel Harner. And check this out. Some people call Doctor Daniel Harner a spiritual psych, a psycho spiritual mentor, therapist, healer, spiritual guide, wizard, researcher and explorer. The truth is, he is all of those things. Originally from Austria, he moved to Sedona when he was 24 and deeply immersed himself in the study and practice of psychotherapy and psycho spiritual transformation and healing, along with some of the most powerful luminaries, teachers and guides in the world. So for him, there's no greater passion and satisfaction but to be unceasingly immersed in transformation, in the realization of truth, beauty, and love. Daniel. Services are available to those who feel a burning desire and calling in their soul to go on a journey to return home within, to reunite with the source of love. So that's what we got on in store today. Daniel, my brother, thank you so much for being with us.

Daniel Harner:
It's an honor to be here. That's quite an introduction.

Daniel Aaron:
Well, um, and I feel like we're just scratching the surface, and I have just the ever so slightest advantage over our audience and that we've met a little bit before this. And to give the audience a little bit more context, because, um, for those who don't know you, could you say a bit more about what, uh, what drove you? What, um, what brought you to this point in your life and and how you've created yourself?

Daniel Harner:
Yeah. Well, I was always a very sensitive. And, um, I was always very curious. A sensitive child, a curious child. And I also experienced pain. And it made me always wonder, like, where does this come from? You know, like, why does the world work the way it does? Like, why do I feel the way I do? And I was always interested in people's minds. And why do they behave the way they do? Why do they feel the way they do? And who holds the truth? You know they do. The adults hold the truth as religion, hold the truth. And, you know, into church. You know, I had teachers in school and I was always, always watching very carefully people. And, um, sometimes it was very uplifting and sometimes it wasn't very uplifting. And, you know, I had to always stay in my heart and ask myself, what is the truth and what is the truth and what is the truth? So I was always in self-inquiry and I could never shut that off. I think I was born that way, and that's the reason why I was here, why I'm here. So. And spirituality and psychology were was my my passions, especially when I was 17 years old I really. Felt like I had an obligation to go deeper within myself, because I had a disillusionment experience with the teachers in school, and I felt like, hey, I don't know if actually the adults are very trustworthy and I don't know if they really hold the key to truth. And I don't know if they really hold the key to knowledge. You know, I really don't know if they really know what they're how do they know what they know? You know? So I started, you know, studying philosophy and mysticism and psychology, uh, studying when I was 17 years old. And, and then I kept going and kept going and kept going. And that's how the real official journey started for me. Officially started at 17, but I already started when I was a child, you know, because I was very spiritual as a child already, you know, I mean, just me being me, you know. Yeah. So and then, yeah, just the journey unfolded from there. So we can go wherever you want to go next. But yes, that's how it started. Mhm. Beautiful. Okay.

Daniel Aaron:
Well and I'm curious as you say that I have my own references for it though when you say spiritual as a child what what was your experience. What did that look like for you.

Daniel Harner:
Well, first of all, I mean, some things go very deep, you know, the love for your parents, for example, the. I love my mom, my dad very much, you know, and that that was a religious or spiritual experience for me, you know, because, like, my dad was Christian and he brought me to church when I was a child. And even though sometimes I didn't like that very much because it meant like, you know, going to a certain place and maybe sitting down for a certain amount of time and then having to adhere to a certain set of rules. But in general, there was a very there was a very interesting experience for me to feel that presence of God in, in those services. And my dad connected me with that love for Christ and the love for for God in that way. Whereas my mom wasn't traditional, traditionally religious, she had a different role. She initiated me into spirituality in a different way by just being the mysterious feminine and just just totally different, uh, totally different way of seeing God through my mom's eyes versus seeing God through my dad's eyes. And I also had grandparents that were deeply interesting to me. You know, they were they were like older generation, you know, and they had ways of doing things and ways of thinking and ways of behaving that were different from my parents. And they also interested me. They were almost like more primordial and like almost archetypal, you know? So I was like, wow, my grandpa, you know, my grandma like, wow, what fascinating human beings, you know? So just just observing the people in my family just was just like reading a book or being in a movie, you know? Yeah.

Daniel Aaron:
Well, it's beautiful and and I love that you were interested in and open to all of that, you know, from such an early age. Um, and I completely relate to the disillusionment that you mentioned in the, you know, those later teen years and seeing the way adults and teachers, you know, carried themselves. And, you know, there were a few exceptions, in my experience. But for the most part, um, yeah, it was it was disappointing to me. And I think that drove me in some way to a greater curiosity. There's a a book I loved many years ago called autobiography of a Spiritually Incorrect Mystic. Right. And one of the characteristics in that is just this sort of relentless questioning, right, which in certain religious worlds, um, that, you know, can sometimes be dogmatic or defensive, that is not encouraged. So I'm, I'm, I'm curious then how has that, um, that questioning part of your nature, how has it how has it affected you and how has it evolved?

Daniel Harner:
Yeah, well, you go deeper and deeper and deeper, you know, so, you know, you didn't. There's no stopping anywhere, you know. So you always ask yourself, what is the truth and where is the truth and what is the truth. And you keep going and you learn from it. You keep constantly inquiring whether you're on the outside world or on the inside world. You know, the inside world. You meditate or you devote yourself to spiritual practice. And on the outside world you observe, you know how reality changes according to your spiritual practice, right? So it's always an interactive relationship. And. It's been so fascinating how those two, the inner and the outer are related, right? So if I make a certain change in my inside, my outside reality would then also appear differently, like people could change. For example, it could be mad at somebody and, and have judgments inside of my head or a bad story about somebody and then change the story in my mind about somebody and forgive somebody and have a soft heart again towards somebody. And then they would behave differently towards me. So it's not like, wow, reality is kind of fluid. Like, how does that work? Like it's supposed to be this person out there be independent of who I am, you know, in the way they are, but in a way they aren't, you know? So I was experimented and I ran my own experiments and observed and, you know, it's like, yeah, it's constant questioning, constantly asking what the truth is and trying to push boundaries and limitations all the time. Right. It's like what's possible. Let's see what's possible. Let's see what's possible, like playful like, you know, so that's what gets me up in the morning. Yeah. It's, uh, there's no limits. I mean, we the world, what we can do now is, is different than what we could do yesterday. Yeah. Um.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah. Beautiful. Okay, cool. So next thing that comes to me is something we spoke about before that I just heard an echo of a moment ago in you. And then prompting this question for me is, uh, I was speaking to someone the other day and, and they were kind of lamenting in themselves saying, you know, I don't have a, I don't have a great story. And they were comparing themselves to someone who had a really difficult, traumatic upbringing and a lot of, you know, dramatic adversity. And they overcame it and, you know, and that became part of how they moved themselves forward in the world. And they can put to point to this almost like heroic origin story. And the person I was speaking with said, well, you know, I didn't really have that. So and thinking that they can't go so far. And something we were playing with earlier when we were talking about, um, Viktor Frankl and he has, you know, such a such a horrific and, um, just, you know, incredible level of adversity that's so obvious in one's face. And so in case anyone doesn't know who that he was a concentration camp, um, victim, I don't know, uh, prisoner and who experienced incredible difficulties. And part of what you and I were speaking about is it's all relative in the sense that you had adversity. Not the same kind as his, though. There was a parallel to it. Um. Mhm. So does that make sense? And you know what, what would you say about, um, you know, anyone's level of adversity or what they overcome and how it relates to sensitivity.

Daniel Harner:
Yeah, I mean, it's true. Not everybody has to experience trauma with a big T like concentration camp. Trauma. Um, in order to have a very significant imprint in their energy. Right. You can't just. Some people are very sensitive, and their their realities can be turned upside down just because somebody said something to them or looked at them in a strange way, or they got a strange energy or vibe or whatever, you know? So it's like we, we, um, we have different sensitivity levels and, um, you know, a big traumas and, and small t traumas, they're, they're, you know, not. Yeah. So the sensitivity level is, is what makes those traumas. Um, um. How they impact you. So. So the more sensitive you are, the more impacted you are by, um, the the trauma. So.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah. Thank you. I remember when when I was a little boy, my mother said to me many times, why can't you be more like your brother? Why are you so sensitive? You see how he just lets it roll off his back? And I, you know, I remember as a kid thinking like, oh, man, I wish I could, you know, but it's like, no, I, I this is, I am sensitive. I feel this stuff really strongly. Um, and I, you know, I get the sense from what you're describing that that was, you know, there were some similarities for you. So how did that play out for you and how did you, you know, how did you move to healing or overcoming or empowering yourself from those experiences? Yeah.

Daniel Harner:
Um. I was born in the town where Adolf Hitler was born. So, you know, Austria is like known to be, you know, sound of music and beautiful hills, and there's beautiful scenery, and the hills are alive with green and, um, but, yeah, I was also born in a town where there was some historical baggage and some shadow, and that really weighed on me when I was, uh, when I was a child. You know, it was really impacting me to have that as a as an energy within me that I have the Second World War and I could feel it, you know, and that really kept me busy for a long time, you know, to be proud of my birthplace and my heritage and where I'm from was really something that was not difficult for me to, to, um, to accept, you know, it's very difficult for me to forgive and, um, to arrive in a place of peace and forgiveness within myself. Um, that, um, that that was something that was weighing on me so hard and, um. Yeah. So there was adversity I faced even though I was never in a concentration camp, I was I was definitely feeling as if I had some kind of a connection with that energy. And it took me, it took me. I took a lot of ancestral healing and a lot of collective trauma healing for me to get to a place of peace within myself, around those subjects. Yeah, yeah, I'm not Victor Franco, but I kind of can relate to that because I could feel those perpetrator victim, rescuer energies within me, moving through me for, for a very long time, you know, so helped me develop a lot of compassion for myself, even though I wasn't involved directly in the in the Holocaust or in the war.

Daniel Aaron:
Mhm mhm. Wow. Okay. Interesting. I, I can relate on the level that when I was a little boy my, my mother was also a radical feminist. She was, you know, right at the, the era of the era Equal Rights Amendment where there was this movement, especially in the US of, you know, women becoming empowered, which was, which was awesome and great and needed. Um, and part of the way that was showing up then was, uh, through the refrain that was something like, well, because men are pigs, you know, men are horrible. And I remember as a little boy just kind of like scratching my head thinking like, I don't think this is going to go well for me. Like I'm destined to become like that. Um, so, you know, for you being there in, in, in the birthplace of Hitler and feeling those energies and, um, I don't know if I mean, you didn't say these words. And so I wonder if this is accurate, but it sounds like it may be in some way feeling a sense of responsibility or guilt for those energies in some way. Um, would that be accurate? Was that part of the flavor?

Daniel Harner:
Yeah, definitely. Definitely felt, uh, a sense of grief. And I could also feel the sense of disempowerment, like feeling like people have been. Stolen, like people have been cheated on in a way. You know, like both feeling both the perpetrator side, but also the victim side. You know, you can you can feel the anger and the maybe flare up from the, from the perpetrators. But you can also feel the, the dysphoria and the disempowerment from the people that weren't in agreement with that and maybe have just moved along with it, you know, and the grief that comes with being feeling like like, oh my God, we have said yes to something that wasn't. That wasn't beautiful. You know, you've done something that wasn't honorable. There's something that we're going to regret, like looking back, right? And and putting my feet on that soil and growing up there and being born there connected me with all these sensations and feelings, you know? And and as a sensitive child, you kind of feel everything, and you can sometimes take it on as if it is yours. Right? Because sometimes you don't have that distinction between inside and outside as much as, as as other people do. And I just absorbed a lot, you know, absorbed a lot and absorbed a lot, too. But I also absorbed and it took me a lot of time to get that out of me again, you know, to cry those tears and, you know, and to, to let that all that that perpetrator rescue victim triangle go. You know, it's very, very, very powerful stuff. And I think it's not just where I grew up. It's a very historically rich, um, place, but it's it's wherever we are at, you know, there's always history. Then there's always people that walked before us and that is, um, it's present. History is still present. And that's why healing is important. Because healing happens when we bring the past into the present, and we honor it and we welcome it, and we we let it go, you know, we transmute it and we set it free. Again. It's like a gift we can give to life because life comes with a price.

Daniel Harner:
You know, we are born into a physical body. You know, the body comes from two parents, you know, like everything is born. We're born into a very conditioned universe or a conditioned life. And then we have to kind of find this place again within ourselves that's unconditioned. It's like, okay, this is like the place where there's no conditions. This is the place where it's unconditional love. You know, it doesn't matter where I'm born, it doesn't matter where I'm at. It doesn't matter what happened before. It doesn't matter how bad it was. I can still be me. I can still be at peace. I can still be love. And I can still be, um. Yeah. Happy. I deserve to be happy. Because really, what weighed on me was when I heard the echoes from the past. All the suffering from the people that that that I could hear kind of screaming from the past to still be happy even though all the pain happened before me. Right. Because it's almost like you have survivor guilt. It's almost like, well, I can't be happy because so many people before me haven't been happy. Um, yeah.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Okay, so a couple pieces come up there that are really important for us. One is I want to get back to the, uh, archetypal energies. You were just speaking about, uh, victim and perpetrator because I'm, as you're saying, that, I'm, like, thinking, oh, good. You know, we go further, and I remember that. And not everybody knows exactly what you're talking about there, necessarily. Before we get to that, though, you mentioned the beautiful word forgiveness and how much of that was required for you. And that's another one that I think in some of the circles you and I are in, that is a word, um, around which there has been a lot of depth and experience and, um, education provided, though I think for a lot of people, there's still misunderstanding around forgiveness, not only like what it means though. Also, you know, why it's so important and how to do it. So would you say more about your perspective on forgiveness?

Daniel Harner:
Yeah. Um. I, I always like to see things in layers and to get out of binary, like, oh, I have forgiven somebody or I've not forgiven somebody, you know, I'd like to see it in layers. So just as a working hypothesis, you could say that you can forgive somebody mentally, you can forgive somebody emotionally and you can forgive somebody somatically let's say, okay. So based on those three levels, you could check, like, am I really at peace in my mind about this situation or that person? Am I really in peace in my heart about something? Can I really feel love with that person? And is my body relaxed, like it's my body that the sensations in my body like are they? Are they? Is my body clear? When I think about those things, when I think about stressful events or when I think about a person. So in that way I always check myself, do I really? Am I really at peace? Am I really in forgiveness? Have I really letting go of that? So I always check on multiple levels, you know, to make sure I'm honest with myself and I'm in congruence with myself because I think the easiest way is to forgive somebody mentally. You can say, okay, I forgive somebody. You know, this is probably what he thought, and this is probably what he did. And, you know, and then, you know, find peace there. And to a certain extent that's valuable. Right. But to find peace in your heart, it's also valuable. And to find peace in your body and forgiveness in your body is also valuable as well. So if you have all three, I think, then you're clear. Um.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah, I'm with you. Um, I remember one of my teachers a long time ago talking about this quintessential, um, moment that a lot of people have referred to in the in the story of Jesus. And, you know, when on the cross, he says, you know, forgive them, father, for they know not what they do. And the peace that my teacher put forward at that point, which when he first said it, I was like, wait a minute, was. In truth, there's nothing to forgive because in truth, everything is unfolding perfectly right. And to me, that was a beautiful paradox, though, you know, part of what he was suggesting is that was another moment or level of Jesus's freedom and evolution in that process. Right then. Mhm. So does that does that make any sense to you?

Daniel Harner:
Definitely. I mean for me, I mean as much criticism as the picture of the crucifixion, it has, you know, like a lot of people say, oh I don't like that picture or, you know, Christ crucified, but I believe it's for me, it's a powerful picture, because for me, it's not just death, but it's also freedom. Because in your death, when the worst thing happens to you, you know, you can also have the greatest opportunity for freedom. Really embracing the you'll say, well, forgive them. You know, I'm I'm a worst possible state that they have nailed me to the cross. You know, they're spitting in me. They're hating me. They don't agree with me. They they don't like me. I forgive them for because they are. They're innocent, you know, they don't actually know what they're doing, you know, and if you can reach that place within yourself, you're completely free. You're completely at peace because there'll always be people that will not agree with you. And they'll they'll always, you know, judge you for one thing or another. And the more the truth you are, one could argue, the more people also kind of hate you sometimes. You know, I was saying that says like, you know, tell the truth and leave town because the truth isn't always popular, you know? So I identify very much with that. You know, I identify very much with that forgiveness aspect of Christianity. And I believe it's freedom. Forgiveness is freedom, and forgiveness is true. Letting go. It's really also where you can see whether forgiveness is just a concept or whether forgiveness is actually lived. So because, yeah, you're pretty tested pretty strongly if you're on the cross, you know, and you're suffering and you're bleeding, you know, you're at peace and you're forgiveness is there. Then you one could say, okay, you passed the test. You know, you're really you've really transcended the the human portion of the mind. Yeah.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah. Beautiful. Okay. Well, I, I sense that not only is forgiveness an important part of your own process has been and maybe continues to be, um, it's I'm sensing that it's also part of how you support people and assist them. And I know my experience and a lot of people I've connected with is sometimes it's like, yeah, I should forgive or it would be good if I did forgive. And yet sometimes people have a hard time with that. So how how do you work with it on a practical level or and how do you help people with forgiving?

Daniel Harner:
Yeah, I think it's very important to be able to take perspectives, to switch perspective, because forgiveness is only a result of a limitation about having a grievance, or having a judgment is a result of having a limited perspective on something. So if you're willing to take an enlarged perspective of the situation, you can let something go and you can forgive something. So whatever it takes to get to that bigger picture is that's that's where we're going to go, okay. We're going to try to zoom out as much as we can so we can see the bigger picture. Because if you saw the world as God sees it, there would be no judgment, there would be no grievances about anything. Right? So the the mind is a very powerful tool. The mind takes pictures of reality. And then it claims that the picture of reality is reality, but it's not. The picture of reality is a picture of reality. And the picture of reality is just it's like a it's just a it's um, yeah, it's like a, a smaller version of reality. And sometimes the picture can also be inaccurate. So we have to question everything we believe, every judgment we have, every grievance we have. So a powerful session with a client last week where she reconnected with that place within herself, before she took all these mental pictures of reality and where she before she took all these traumatic pictures of reality. Oh my God, somebody abused me and somebody trampled all over me, or somebody did this to me. You know, this really happened to her. And it's horrible, right? But there's a place within her that. Didn't have any of those pictures. It's almost like there's a part that was always innocent and that was always loving, and it was always open and it was always peaceful. And we reconnected with that place within herself. And she felt so much peace. And it's almost like we didn't even have to work on each of her traumas or grievances, because she could reconnect with that place within herself where she wasn't hurt, where everything was okay, which is people did what they did and it had nothing to do with her, you know?

Daniel Harner:
So it's really accessing a place of being within that is peace. And it's almost like that childlike innocence that talk about in also in the Bible, right, where you say like, well, you have to become children again in order to reenter the kingdom of God. You know, finding that place in our heart again, where we see the world through the eyes of love and innocence is a very, very, a very powerful spiritual practice. And it's part of what I do, because when we can be in that place, nothing's wrong, you know, nothing's gone wrong and everything's okay the way it is. And it might sound in some ways strange, but it's actually very simple. And yes, it's, it's if you can get there, you're, you're, you're in a very good place because you can let go of your past and you can let go of the present. Whatever is happening is good. Mm.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah. Nice. Beautiful. I as you speak, I think of one of my favorite lines from the Course in Miracles that says a miracle is a shift in perception. Mhm. So it's such a small thing, but you know, it's really just like if I could just look at it this way and as you're speaking about the, the client who could connect with that innocent part of themself, the change is everything. And it's like, well, from that perspective, there's nothing left to forgive. There's no problem.

Daniel Harner:
There you go.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah. Beautiful.

Daniel Harner:
It's exactly like that. And sometimes we put our minds are so powerful. Like I said, first they take pictures of reality. Not the actual reality, but pictures of reality. So it's just a picture, and it can be a little skewed. It can be a little inaccurate. But then it also puts distance between you and the event or you and the other person. And that distance sometimes can be quite a bit. It's like, wow, I don't know if I ever can heal from this event. You know, like, this is so bad and I will take me years to recover from it. You know, maybe true, but maybe it's just the way how the mind sees it. Maybe this could actually be collapsed in just a millisecond and it's gone, you know? So anything's possible. So shift the perspective when however long it takes to have that shift of perspective is powerful. You know, because a miracle certainly is a place where, you know, it's a place of peace. That's what they teach you to come back to peace. A place where there's no where everything's but there's a beautiful world. And then there's a world that's very unnatural, right? The unnatural world is where we have taken all the pictures. The beautiful world is where the world is, is as it is, as it is without pictures. So. And that's a place where there's no need for forgiveness. Because everything's okay just the way it is. So that's the beauty of the course of miracles, because it teaches you how to return home to the place within yourself. Mhm.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah. Nice. Nice. All right. Well let's, let's go back a moment because it's still hanging there for me. You were speaking about uh well one way you were speaking about archetypes and victim. Perpetrator and, and the kind of the cycle and how you move through that, though, for, for anyone that's with us that maybe doesn't know that that language or what those archetypes perspectives are, could you say a little more about it?

Daniel Harner:
Um, the triangle we referenced before. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a really it's a really handy tool, to be honest with you. It's I believe those three parts are mainly how the ego operates in this world. Perpetrator, rescuer, um, and victim, you know, so it's like, if you have those three, they have a perfect, um, scenario for a drama, okay? Because it's like, and it never ends. There's always something going on, like it keeps regurgitating and it keeps circling around, and it's almost like a, yeah, a never ending melodrama. And yeah, this is an archetype. This is the archetypal underpinning of the human ego. Okay. And so this is how the, the stories of all the movies and all the songs that people write about, you know, the lyrics, you know, it's like you can see all the things in there. So I think it's a powerful way of seeing the world, but there's no peace in those, in those triangles, you know, there's this is yeah, there's always action. There's always some kind of juice, there's always some kind of moving energy that wants you to have more. It's a little addictive. And to really get out of it, you have to zoom out and see that this is this is neither one of those things. Yeah. Yeah. This is it's a very, very powerful tool. It's a cycle. It's from psychology actually. You know, the that triangle. The Karpman triangle they call it. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Aaron:
Nice. Thank you. Okay. So many places, so many things to talk about with you. Um you you mentioned part of what, you know, like the tendency of, for the human mind to take a picture of something to, you know, freeze a limited perspective. I thought about the, the old story of the three blind men trying to describe an elephant. Right? Then they only see the each piece of the picture, and they, they're sure that that's what it is. But of course, it's all limited perspective. And I was working with a client the other day doing this beautiful project, writing a book, a book about respect. And, um, in the book project, the, the, the desire was coming up in, in this person to, um, how do I want to say it? To really back up everything she says in, in a researched or scientific way. And part of what was what I was thinking of about that. And I'm bringing this up for you because you've got, you know, this beautiful experience with Doctor Hawkins. Right? And and I immediately flashed on the, the scale of consciousness and the idea that. Right. Well, the rational brain or logic can only go so far and there are realities or perspectives well beyond that. Um, so yeah, I guess the question that I'm asking is, what sense do you make of that? And if we were, you know, supporting my client who was looking. Yeah, there's of course, there's a value in in being logical and rational and backing up our arguments. Yet there's something beyond that. Is that does that make sense to you and what would you, you know, add or subtract from what I said?

Daniel Harner:
Yeah. I think it's important. Well, there's three real different there's real important demarcations on that scale of consciousness that David Hawkins, um, um, talked about. You know, one is the really first one is really the delineation between the two hundreds and the rest of the scale, because when you move from, from 200 and to higher, this is really when you're crossing over into courage. And everything that's below 200 is in the form of a perpetrator, victim, rescuer sort of story. And. That will keep you entangled in an illusionary world where you feel very disempowered and where you're where you're kind of in an addictive, in an addictive, um, scenario. Right. So when you evolve a little higher above 200, you can hit a place where you get a little more into your mind and become a little more intellectual, and where you understand reality. And you read spiritual books and you read science, you're wondering about cause and effect and things like that. And that's when reality becomes a lot more clear and you understand things, and then you can feel a little prideful about that because you think you know things and you become really good with your picture taking abilities. Right? And he's like, wow, I'm taking really accurate pictures. I can actually predict what's going to happen next. And then we were at science, right? We run experiments and you become really precise with what's what's going to happen in the future and so forth, you know, but then, you know, you run into another one. So the first one is delineation with 200. And you come into that level of 500 where your mind runs up against its own limitations. As far as, uh, the picture taking accuracy goes and you move into the, the phase of where being begins, where you really can't take pictures anymore. You were moving into a place of subjectivity, and they're talking something's called a radical subjectivity, because you're entering now into a place of being, you know, being cannot be cannot be understood and understood by the mind. Being is its own territory. It's like it's like the mind can look at the water or a river and it can take pictures of the river, but it doesn't quite know what what it's like to be in it.

Daniel Harner:
Right? So when you cross over into a place of 500, a place of love, you enter into a state of being that can only be understood when you're willing to go into the water, and you have to make a sacrifice to get into the water. You have to be willing to be wet. You have to be willing to be touched by love. And that is, uh, a very important transition in the spiritual evolution that you're kind of willing to let go of the pride of knowing and the pride of, oh my God, I'm such a great photographer. You just see, you know what? The pictures are great. But what matters more is that that I feel that reality rather than see that reality. Yeah. So it's a it's a change a change of perspective again. Right. And then you can go move deeper and deeper and deeper into more advanced states of consciousness. But that's where the the subjectivity layer begins at level 500, if that makes sense.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah. It makes a lot of sense to me. And and I like the way you broke that down with the scale of consciousness. That's always seemed to me like those are the the critical thresholds. And, you know, the whole the whole scale is really interesting. Um, yet those thresholds are just such different worlds. It's, you know, it's it's really like, yeah, different worlds is the best way I know how to say it.

Daniel Harner:
Yes. And again, you can have compassion because you can see like, wow, there's so many ways of being right. There's a way of being a level of anger or a level of grief or a level of shame or a level of guilt. And it can be, you know, very willing, it can be very intellectual, and it can be extremely loving and unconditionally loving, extremely peaceful. And then at some point, spiritually completely awake or enlightened, you know, so it gives you compassion that there's so many ways of being, you know, so many flavors, there's so many shades and and aspects to life. We can appreciate them all. And we don't just have to lump them all into one thing and then judge people because we lack the diversification to assess reality. Yeah.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah. Nicely said. Okay. Well, there's a good, uh, transition for us in a way. I saw that, um, our, uh, common friend and mentor, coach Steve Hardison, uh, is either with us or stopped by for a moment. And one of the big contributions he's made in, in for a lot of people is really bringing forward this idea of being in a way that a lot of people understand, maybe in a way they hadn't before. And you were just speaking about being and relating it to the above 500 level on on Doctor Hawkins scale of consciousness. And I, I, you know, I find that for a lot of people it's still the concept of being is challenging. Right. Um, so I'm curious like how you work with it, how you speak about it. What what what can you say that might make it more of an accepted, uh, understandable concept for folks?

Daniel Harner:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. The concept of being is challenging as long as it is a concept. And that's why Steve Harrison didn't want to write the book, uh, the ultimate coach, because he wanted it to be something that is understood, uh, subjectively, like the state of being is not something you can talk about very well. It's something you either are or you aren't, you know, and so the concept is challenging, but the state of being is not it's the most simplest, the most natural thing that exists. It's the most natural thing that exists. So, um, and it's bad. Transmuted and and transferred by osmosis, by actually spending time in the presence of somebody that has that way of being that you want to reaccess. So that was one of the reasons why I wanted to coach with Steve Hardison, why I wanted to be with him is because I saw this way of being that he had that was so free and fearless and so natural and so playful that I wanted to be with them and spend time with them so I could download this for myself and. Yeah. So, so being with somebody who has that way of being so natural to have that re-access within oneself is, I think, the biggest gift one can give, um, to oneself. That's why I moved to America, because I wanted to be surrounded with people that had that being state that I wanted, because in Austria the people were being all kinds of things, but it didn't have that that higher being state that I kind of knew was possible, you know. And I saw it and my mentors that I studied with in America, you know, and I followed them very closely because I felt like I want to have what you have, you know, and I can only have that by spending more time with you. And I'm going to some way download that from you. It's not transferred intellectually. That's the way how you can put more distance between people, because then being becomes a concept. But when you are with somebody, it's not an intellectual thing, it's an energetic thing. And you feel somebody else's presence and you see the world through their eyes, and I feel that's that's the fastest way to actually spiritually progress or to become, um, I guess, embodied in your own being, um, is to be with the people that inspire you and the people that you look up to and just have more time with them in person or over zoom or something like that.

Daniel Harner:
And it's the reason why I'm here. So it's like if somebody feels inspired by my way of being, then I want to be there to help other people get in touch again, with their own innate knowingness and their own innate connection to source God, love, truth, beauty, whatever you want to call it. Right? So but it's it's something that is so simple. It's not complicated at all. The only complicated thing is the mind that puts the distance between the thing and where you're at. You know, what's the mind when you take that, that little thing out of your mind? It's just like life's very simple. And Steve Harrison demonstrated that very well in our sessions every time I was there. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Aaron:
Beautiful. Well, I mean, as you said, it brings me right back to where we were a moment ago, talking about the scale of consciousness. Right? Like the mind hits the ceiling at 500, like you can't go any, you know, it can't grasp what's up there. Yeah. And and I've, I've like you, I've several times in my life moved around the world because I met somebody some being who, who, who had something that was for and even for me ineffable. Like, it's not like I even understood it, but I was like, I want to be around that. Mhm. And I love that there's an expression. I guess it's probably a Zen expression, or maybe from Daoism, but that, you know, the truth cannot be spoken, right? And whatever we're pointing to, if you try and put it in words, it's not the truth, however, and I don't know if I heard this somewhere or just came to me or what, but. Well, it can't be spoken. We can point and it can be heard, right? Like the truth can be heard. Mhm. And, and last thing I'll say. And then I want to turn back to you to see what comes for you is one of the perspectives I get on this is, is related to the word entrainment which I'm, I'm sure you know though for, for anyone who maybe doesn't know the words so well, in simplest terms it means two bodies or ideas at different frequencies or vibrations. When they get into relationship, they align to the same vibration and right. And I love the way you were speaking a moment ago. It's like, well be the fastest way to to get there, to experience that being is being in relationship and whether that's in person or, you know, by osmosis or even in this way. And we know well, from from quantum physics advancements in the last few years, like it could be separated across time and space, and yet there's still an entanglement to connection there. Yeah. Um, so any more you want to say on that? I know, I just, uh, rambled on for a moment about I get excited about this topic.

Daniel Harner:
Yeah. No, I mean this getting it by osmosis, you know, just putting yourself into a group or into a mentorship and a men's group or a 12 step meeting, whatever. Where it is, where you feel spiritually inspired, where you have that entrainment there. It's like you're borrowing something and it's not cheating. It's actually legitimate. You know, it's almost like David Hawkins used to say. It's like if you want to become enlightened, it's very beneficial for you to spend time in the presence of somebody who is enlightened, because something invisible is going to transfer over into your aura. It's almost like something invisible inside of you. It's just like an invisible energy infrastructure that you have is going to be activated. And now you have that imprint inside of you for the for for the rest of your life. Nobody can take that away from you. Right? So everything that I've learned from my teachers and my mentors is inside of me. This is not something I can that can be removed from me. My bank account can be drained, right, or my house can be broken into. But, um, yes, but what I've learned and who I've become, being the subjective state of being is something you get to keep forever, right? So it's like build your your treasures in heaven. You know, where nobody can take them away from you. Don't build them where, you know, people can trample all over it, right? You want to build those subjective things, those being things inside of you, and then you then you're very wealthy, right? This is the best investment of your time and energies to build yourself into this infrastructure of love that you are. If you are being who you are, then you are. You have everything. Absolutely everything. And. It's cool to be educated. It's nice to know. It's nice to read a lot of books. It's nice. It's. I have a PhD, right? I went to school for ten years. I know a lot about things, but it's not a replacement for being something. Being is more important to what you know is also cool, because then you can combine the knowing with the being and then create something extremely amazing out of that as well.

Daniel Harner:
Right? It's almost like a sacred alchemy. You can use words in a different way. You can use art in a different way. You can transmute things in a different way. It's also best to have both worlds. You know, for me, I always felt like I want to have a good mind and I want to have a good way of being. And if I can combine those two things very uniquely to me, then I am sharing my gift adequately with the world. So. But that's not what everybody needs to do. So some people are just really good, just having a very smart mind and some people are just really good. Just really being like, my cat has an amazing way of being right. Doesn't know anything, doesn't read any books. Like just just innately is just my cat is just just my cat, you know? So he's just himself and he's beautiful, but he's not educated, doesn't have a PhD, but he's perfect just the way he is. Yeah.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah. Beautiful. Well I was, I was thinking of your in your bio. You used the word home. Um, and and and the way you use it reminded me of the a thing that one of my mentors, Ram Dass, used to say a lot, which is we're all just walking each other home, right? Which, you know, points to the, the, the beauty of humility, like we spoke about earlier, like we're just all pilgrims on this path together. And yeah, really, we're just remembering that we're already there. Mhm. So. I guess I wonder, because time is flying along here. Um, is there anything I haven't asked you about or anything that you want to bring forward that's, um, especially alive in you or you think would be useful for folks?

Daniel Harner:
Well. I've been by inclination disposition, always been a little bit on a, on the loner side. So I've always been very comfortable just being by myself and, and studying and learning and, and the relational component in life, like walking each other home. Right? Holding each other's hand like that is something I believe is extremely important on the spiritual journey as well. At least it has been for me. So that has been a more vulnerable aspect on my journey. Because yes, you can study by yourself and meditate by yourself and do all this amazing studying and all that. But at the end of the day, sharing and being vulnerable and being authentic and really owning your humanity, not just the beautiful parts, but also the parts where you're kind of broken and where you have a hard time being with somebody in that space. So feeling vulnerable or being broken. I think sharing that with somebody is very valuable. Whether you are on a on a psychological healing journey or a spiritual enlightenment journey or both at the same time, you know, I feel like it's extremely important to not underestimate that component of of the journey. And I think Ram Dass was really amazing, um, emphasizing that very much so. Um, if I could, you know, like, look at my 24 year old self now as a 42 year old man, you know, I would say, you know what? Just just start with that sooner. You know, that that process of building sacred relationships with the people that you trust, you know, and find them in, um, beyond fear. I mean, that I said I wouldn't have looked for them, but I really was hard for me to find the people that I wanted to open up to and be vulnerable with. So I think when I was 29 or around 30 is when I really found somebody that I really emotionally connected with, and that was a game changer for me. Like, because I felt like, wow, that person sees me, that person gets me, and I feel safe with that person. And I believe safety and and trust are very underestimated in a lot of ways. So because there aren't a lot of trustworthy and safe people out there, I'm sorry to say, but, you know, it takes a lot to become a trustworthy person and a safe person.

Daniel Harner:
And I believe if you find somebody that's trustworthy and safe and that you want to open up to keep those people in your life, you know, it's very it's a, it's a, it's a wealth that we can't measure. But it's, it's extremely important. So that's that's something I believe that I would want to add more into my life when I was younger, just have that sooner. I didn't have it. And that's why I'm here to be that what I didn't have earlier when I was 24, to be now the person that I wanted when I was 24. So to be that feeling of when people are in my presence, do they feel safe? Do they feel at home? Do they feel like they can be themselves? That's what I'm here for. This is what this is who I want to be. I'm not perfect, but this is who I want to be. I want to be a person where people feel safe and where they can, can open up, right? I mean, for me, that's the biggest longing that I have is just for me to open up and to be myself and to share myself and to and to share it with other people. Right. It's such a it's something we can do here uniquely here on Earth. Right? This is a this is a special place to be. It's a place of separation, seemingly. But we can make it into a heavenly place, and we can make this into a place where we all learn how to trust and to be more of ourselves. It's takes courage, takes work, but it can make it all fun together, I believe. Yeah.

Daniel Aaron:
Beautiful. Thank you. Yeah. And then, you know, the way. The way you're speaking of it. What comes to me is the on somewhat one way I look at the life journey is like, we're it's like it's like a treasure hunt. Is that what they call it? Yeah. You know, and we're just cruising along and and like, when you were 24, you hadn't come across, in a sense, the, the treasure of community or those kind of sacred deep relationships, though somewhere around 29 you're like, oh, hey, that's a treasure that now I can incorporate that and bring it in. And and the whole journey of walking each other home is we're just we're just on this path and finding more treasures. And the more we get, the more we we feel like we're belong. We're belonging and having the the riches that is possible in the earthly plane. Yeah.

Daniel Harner:
Exactly. Mhm.

Daniel Aaron:
So. What? Um. What's what's next for you? You're, you know, in this phase where you've you've done a tremendous amount of work. You're you're helping a lot of people through your work right now. I mean, in this conversation with your clients, um, you're continually on your own growth and learning path, um, which I 100% believe is in, uh, imperative for all of us. Um, when you look forward, though, what's what's exciting you or pulling you forward next?

Daniel Harner:
Um. What excites me always is perfecting that state of being more and more and more and more and more within myself. Because, as you know, from the scale of consciousness, it's not, oh, you arrived at a certain place and you are now complete or something. You know, you just arrive at certain levels of completeness. Right? So and I'm, I'm happy where I'm at and I know there's more and I want more and I want to be even more at peace and even more in love and more beauty. So when people are with me, they can feel it even more. Right? So it's like the way of being has kind of entered so deeply into my myself and into even just three dimensional reality that I feel very comfortable being myself and sharing myself with the world, you know? So so that'd be one strand of, of answering your question is like, okay, my being state, I want to expand that. I want to make that even more felt. I want that want to be able to transmute that even more with people when they are in my presence. And the second one would be to be able to also infuse the mind aspect of myself with that quality. So much so that the way how I can express what I've learned is also enlarged in a way that nobody else has been able to find words around the realities I've experienced on the inside. So because there's a reason why I had like ten years of university education and also a really rich, deep inner journey as well. So, I mean, if I can bring those two things together and express what I've learned through the mind in very unique ways, then then I can share my message also in a new way with, uh, with maybe a different audience and maybe expressing it in very simple terms that maybe even a five year old might understand it. You know, it's kind of like maybe not possible, but an aspiration to because like how Jesus talked, you know, in parables and in syllogisms and in metaphors. I really, I really, really resonates with me because it talks to my heart. And staying in my heart and being in my heart and expressing my heart is really important to me.

Daniel Harner:
So because I feel like we have so much mind stuff in this world, I feel like what we need more of is more heart stuff and marrying the heart and the mind together. Uh, more and more and more is really what excites me. So. And I've been privileged to study with the most amazing people on the planet, at least in my opinion. So like, for me to spirit spirit, the spirit psychospiritual interface that I've been exposed to through my mentors is so rich for me. It will keep me busy for the rest of my life, expressing it and expressing it in a way only I can. You know, that's a privilege, and that's also a responsibility on my part to share that with the world and hopefully make the journey a lot easier for other people and cut through confusion a little quicker and may not have to sit on certain dilemmas as long as I have. Because ultimately, you know, you can, um, absorb things by osmosis. So and by not use it, right. Abuse it.

Daniel Aaron:
100%. Yeah. Beautifully said. And I thought I was not gonna I was gonna say I've always disliked the word enlightenment. And that's not true because there was a period in my life when I was I want to be enlightened, you know, and and then it occurred to me later on, like, actually, you know, there's something for me flawed about the word because it implies, you know, before and after, you know, uh, like, like there's some completed state and I'm with you. It's it's ever, ever evolving. There's always more to to peel away, to understand, to evolve into.

Daniel Harner:
Yeah, exactly.

Daniel Aaron:
All right, well, this brings us. Well, actually, no one thing before that brings us to the big question. So, Daniel, if people are excited about what you're sharing, would like to connect with you more, what's the best way of doing that?

Daniel Harner:
Um, not. Been very active on social media. Um, if people want to connect with me, they can go to my website. It's w w w Daniel harnett.com, and feel free to send me a text message, email and reach out. I'm here. So the best way to connect. Mm.

Daniel Aaron:
Beautiful. Well I, I love your openness and simplicity and humility in putting it forward. I, you know, your your heart for what you're doing. And the care for people is so readily apparent and and beautiful. So last question. This is like the big question, the impossible question, especially for a man with a PhD who studied with so many different amazing teachers who's been working on himself so diligently for so many years. If you had to take everything that you've experienced, who you've become, all your knowledge and boil it down, distill it into one thing, and there's one thing to share with our audience that will help them to have a more vibrant, thriving life. What's the one thing you would put forward?

Daniel Harner:
I always ask myself, what is the most loving thing to do in when I feel like, oh, I don't know the answer to this, or um, I don't know what to do. Like I was asking, what's the most loving thing to do? So for me, that's a really cool place to come from. Like coming from love, you might not always feel like you are in love. You just think your thoughts might not reflect love or the things that happen in your life might not reflect love, but come back to the being state. Come back to a place of love within yourself to be kind and compassionate towards yourself and towards everybody in your life. I think is the most important thing to be patient with yourself and to just show up over and over again, no matter how clumsy it feels sometimes. And it may not be the fancy answer, but, you know, it's really simple. You just have to do the simple thing over and over and over and over and over again, you know, without giving up. And don't think there's anything wrong about that. No, there's nothing wrong about that. As long as you have that compass and as long as you have that dialed in your GPS, you're going home.

Daniel Aaron:
Beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, and simplicity is not always easy. Yet it is always powerful, you know. And I love that. What? You know, what would love do what would be the most loving thing here? And just asking that question. In my experience, that alone is transformative and powerful. Mhm.

Daniel Harner:
Yes I percent it's a place to come from, not a place to get to because you are already love. What you need to learn is to no longer identify with the places where you think you're not loving. Right. So it's like re arriving back home to yourself, where everything is, is as it is and it's already right there. It's not that far away. It's right here, right here, right here. Mm.

Daniel Aaron:
Well, that's a perfect circle to our conversation. So Daniel, again thank you so much for being with us. And and also, you know, for your dedication like, um, the what you've, the ways that you have devoted yourself to learning and evolving the, the humility that you've developed, the amount of love and care that just exudes from you toward the world. It's it's beautiful and impressive. And, um, I really appreciate that. And you taking the time to share with us today.

Daniel Harner:
Thank you, my. Honor and privilege to be here to share myself with you and your audience.

Daniel Aaron:
Uh. Thank you. All right. And y'all, in the audience, you are the heroes of this story. We are humble guides and, um, just blessed to be able to share with you. So, again, would you please take at least one of those amazing nuggets that Daniel brought for you and say, yeah, I'm going to try that out. I'm going to give that, um, some energy and action in my life today. I love that you were here. I love that you are interested in and dedicated to making your life even more vibrant. I love you for being here. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to share with you, and I hope to see you soon. In the meantime, please, please, please make your life even more of a masterpiece. See you later. Aloha.

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