Special Guest Expert - Dr. Talia Shafir: Video automatically transcribed by Sonix

Special Guest Expert - Dr. Talia Shafir: this mp4 video file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Daniel Aaron:
What does it take to create a vibrant, thriving life? First, the sad news is that Thoreau was right most people are leading quiet lives of desperation, lacking in meaning, fulfillment, and vitality. But we choose more. We choose to create extraordinary lives and the art of vibrant living. Show entertains you with inspiration, empowerment and education to create your life into a masterpiece. It's time. Let's vibe up. Hey, y'all. Aloha. Welcome to the show. I am Daniel Aaron. I am your host. This is the Art of Vibrant Living show where we do what? Guess guess guess. Yes, absolutely. We empower you and inspire you. Maybe even educate you to help you to live your most vibrant, thriving, amazing life. And today's show is going to be extraordinary. I'm so excited. We have an amazing guest who is uniquely and powerfully positioned to help us all really raise the quality of our life, maybe even the duration of it. You know, a longer good life is always fantastic. And before I introduce her and bring her up, you my friend, visiting the show, whether it is live or by rebroadcast, please, I hope that you are on track to your life being the most extraordinary experience you could ever imagine, even beyond what you could imagine. And if you are not there, if you feel challenged, if you just know you want to go to the next level, please reach out. You can email me Daniel at Daniel aaron.com. I would love to support you. I don't know how I can do that yet until I get to meet you, but guaranteed I got some ways to help you, even if it's recommendations for other stuff. So all that said y'all, such an exciting show today. Doctor Talia Shaffer. Shaffer, she. I probably mispronounced her name. Darn. I meant to ask her for sure on that is a, um, quite an educated woman. Um, dual master's degree, a PhD in somatic and spiritual psychology, a master somatic movement therapist. Um, she's well experienced in past life regression, teaching English as a second language, language therapy movement, past life, all of this just to help us understand what's going on. How can we take the past, leave it in the past, and how can we move forward in the best way possible? I could say more, but hey, better we hear directly from her. So, Doctor Talia, thank you so much for being with us.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Oh you're welcome. It's chauffeur. Chauffeur, chauffeur. Yes.

Daniel Aaron:
So thank you.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
You're welcome.

Daniel Aaron:
Verified that so? Now I have the minor advantage here of, um, knowing a little bit about you, because we've chatted a bit, I've gotten to read about you. But for our guests who might not have that advantage yet, might not know you, um, would you give us just a little bit of the background? How did you get to this point in your life and doing this work?

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Oh, sure. You know, I often ask myself the same question. Um, I think it could be, well, well described as kind of backing in, you know, backing in and finding myself suddenly, um, doing what I'm doing. I, um, I started out as a professor of English as a second language, um, at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Mm. Number of years ago. And then I came back to the States and was a vice principal of a five campus Hebrew school and taught Hebrew. And then I decided that I would go into sales and marketing. So I, um, in the very beginning of the, uh, home computer. Craze. I started to sell home computers and and that was in San Francisco. And, um, got very interested in how people use computers. What they. You know what the problems are, how to solve them. And so, you know, here we see the beginnings of a foundation of, well, you know, what's the problem now? Now what's the solution? Um, I did a lot of, uh, marketing work my way up to, uh, being a, uh, director of sales and marketing in Silicon Valley. Worked, worked a number of years there. And then I got interested in hypnosis and hypnotherapy. And, um, living in California that, you know, the the offerings were plentiful. And I started to study something called, uh, alchemical hypnotherapy. Um, which was an elegant, uh, mix of ericksonian hypnosis and Jungian imaginal realm work. I started to get very interested, interested in the workings of the brain and the mind and and how our thoughts, uh, affect us and and what's going on with the body. Because the people I was working with, um, started to, uh, add a somatic piece long before somatic was a buzzword. And we were doing things like, you know, putting people in trance and and talking to the body, you know, like, well, I don't know what to do. And you're, you know, to tell your body to do you don't know what to tell your body, but your body knows what to do. And that and that became a, a, you know, a lifeline into watching. Um. People. People's bodies just move and unravel and unwind.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Years of patterning and letting go from from a point of view of the body. And it was very interesting at the same time. Um, Pat Ogden, who was, uh, worked with Bessel van der Kolk. Uh, some people may know. Um, we're beginning to teach something called sensorimotor psychotherapy for the treatment of trauma and post-traumatic stress. And, um, that came about just about the same time as I had started working with doctor Roger Woolgar. Uh, from the UK, um, who was doing a type of past life work, past life regression that had a somatic component. In other words, he included the body because he had been studying about, uh, what Wilhelm Reich was doing with the body and character structure. And so, you know, the salad started to come about and the direction I was going was interested in, you know, why why we behave the way we do, why we react and respond to, you know, certain circumstances in our lives and, and how to use the body as a resource and how to build resources in the body. And it kind of went in through there. Um, and I found myself immersed really in not only language and how language and movement of the body actually coalesce and come together, that you can't just talk about something, you just talk about something. You you may see something, of course you're going to see something. And it's not wasted time, but it doesn't get to the root of it. And it doesn't really, um. Expand all all of what we can be and all the all of what we have to work with. Um, so I was became a hypnotherapist and then I, then I became a somatic movement therapist. Um, I thought I was coming for two weeks to, uh, to a training by Doctor Martha Eddy and what she calls dynamic embodiment. Because New York is really the more was more the movement dance capital, whereas whereas California was more the, you know, the imaginal realm, the energy work that, that kind of thing. So I come to New York. And I think I'm going to take a course for two weeks to get some techniques, which is how a lot of people think about the somatic component component of therapy that we should talk, and then we'll we'll break it up and we'll, we'll throw in a somatic piece, an exercise.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
The thing with somatic movement therapy is that the main focus is in movement. Because. How we move very often reflects how we think, and our language reflects the energy of our experience. So it is a a conceptual approach through the body to the brain, and the brain is interpreting the body's experience, the brain and nervous system. So I end up doing a PhD in a non traditional place of course. What else. And um, I do just about ten years of research, um, in language and movement. And what do the two have in common and how much of the information that someone is trying to not only understand themselves, but convey in therapy comes through the body and the body's movement and the patterns. So that's how I got to where I am now.

Daniel Aaron:
Well that's that's great. Thank you for sharing that. And I just love the way things evolve sometimes in mysterious ways. And even your, you know, what would seem like a side trip into sales and marketing, right. You know, you can you can look back at the breadcrumbs now and say that was really an important part of the journey, and probably not just because it led you to the next step. But there were pieces in there, and there's so much in what you shared that's worth us bringing forward a little bit more. And I love that you spoke about hypnosis and self hypnosis. Right. And the, the, the you brought up the word somatic and a little bit tease the distinction between somatic and somatic therapy and somatic movement. Mhm. Um, and and language. Right. And that language is such an integral part of this. Um, but let me back up just because, you know, some people may not be on the same page already, this might be like, well, what are they talking about here? Um, you know, I know for me, when I grew up as a kid, I was born right into the era of better living through science. Right. And and that was an era of complete distrust for the body's natural wisdom or even disdain for it in some way. Right. So I grew up in a, in, you know, without without breast milk. I know you're used to you've gone into, you're researching into the world of birth and that, um, you know, and I was at the time myself where it was better to give a kid a formula than natural breast milk. Right. And that's just, I just say that because it's sort of symbolic of this better living through science. And I grew up so disconnected from my body in a lethargic family. And it was only when I kind of got whacked up the side of the head by the divine that I woke up to say, you know, I think this body's got something to do with the whole picture here, and maybe I'll investigate it a little bit. So I guess what I want to connect to and ask you more about here is the idea of the body being not just not just a vessel for the spirit, but an integral part of of the whole picture and the importance of what you know, what is the importance of the body and movement as far as healing and health and vibrancy? Um, I said a lot, but does that make sense as a question?

Dr. Talia Shafir:
No, absolutely. Yeah. You're actually in good company. I mean, you know, uh, and now it's becoming a little more mainstream, but but the attachment system and how how well you have been supported and comforted, soothed and, and, um, and and reassured as from in utero all the way to, you know, throughout the lifespan, but especially in the early developmental years and, and how that relationship lays the groundwork for other relationships. But, you know, it's funny because when I said you're in good company, you know, Freud, for a long time, uh, would was saying, you know, mother breastfeeding, you know, mother, there's no you know, he didn't know about attachment. Bowlby, who was one of a psychoanalyst and, you know, was one of the group for Freud that broke away. And actually, if you're a good teacher, then your students will break away and create something and build on what you've taught. So, you know, Freud said, oh, no, mother is just, you know, that's just, you know, for food. But. But that is so not true. And then, of course, was proven. Because it is communication, how we're touched, how we're greeted, how we're handled, the quality of of our eye contact. How we speak to one another, our tone of voice, how we look at one another, how our skin. Comes in contact with mother especially. So breastfeeding then was not just about, um, what food is better? What formula is better? You know, it's about the communication and the connection that occurs. And so we now know that that breastfeeding is also not necessarily feeding. But suckling is is a is a regulatory process. So that, you know, um, what's happening with, with uh, an infant and a toddler, you're, you're, you're going out, you're getting a lot of information through your eyes, through your ears, you know, through through the air you breathe, you know, and, and a lot of information. And how do you integrate it? Well, that that baby comes back to the breast. Not necessarily because they're hungry all the time, but but because okay, I have I that's, that's you know, are you their mother is you know, are you in proximity. Are you emotionally accessible.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Are you attuned to my needs? You know, look, nobody's looking for perfection. If you find it, let me know. Um, please. Um, you know, I always say, you know, you find me a perfect mother. I'll find you a dead person. I mean, it's like we we need these challenges. So, um, that that piece of being disconnected, you, you you need that contact to be connected to your own body. You know it is. You mentioned that I was, uh, you know, interested in researching, uh, the birth process itself. And, uh, I've been one of the things, one of the, one of the bodies of knowledge that I have studied quite a bit and have recently gone back to is biodynamics, uh, you know, uh, created by Elizabeth, Elizabeth Marker and, and Denmark and, um, recently did a rebirth, uh, training, which was very interesting, um, in Portugal and, um, just going through that process and seeing what happened to me and what parts of me then connected to parts I didn't even know were there, um, was an amazing discovery. And I think that. It's so important to get the support for discovery and exploration and, and that's that's basically, you know, you talked about sales and marketing before and I you know, I always say, well, I'm, you know, I'm selling always selling, selling a product. It's permission, permission to be, you know, let's hope we never run out of that product, you know. So so yeah. Um, that touch. And movement. We develop in parallel, psychologically and physically. They go together. And language comes to extend our ability to communicate and also to receive communication. But it but it it originates in experience.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah. Nice. Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. And it brings it to a greater level of understanding for us. And, you know, as you were saying, that part of what came to me is. And this leads me to my next question for you. Um, that part of that better living through science and disconnect from, say, the body's natural wisdom also contain this flavor of the doctor or the scientist or whoever it is with the lab coat knows best, right? And for a time really conveyed a concept to to like the lay people, the population that, well, you know, we need some expert outside of ourself in order to be safe, in order to heal, in order to grow. And I'm seeing a strain, a strain coming through what you're sharing that's implying that, well, there's actually one maybe a natural wisdom to to the body mind system and two, that maybe it's, uh, able to heal and integrate on its own, um, that there's, uh, a natural process for that. Am I hearing that correctly that that sort of strain?

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Yeah. Yes, I think you are. Look, you know, um, yes, of course, you know, if something's, you know, you have a heart condition or, you know, you broke your arm. Let's hope the doctor knows, if not best than better. But it's, you know, these days. What are we talking about in the therapeutic container? We're talking about a relational container. Now, that means that, you know, I have a variety of lenses through which to view what you may be saying to me. But I always have to keep in mind to listen to what you're saying. Mm. Um, because, uh, language is interesting. We we actually speak, our unconscious will speak, and our conscious mind will speak, and and one of the things I like to emphasize is to. Help people under here when they're unconscious is speaking and and when their conscious mind is deciding to take over because its job is to justify what you decided to do, which may not be exactly the thing you really want to do. You know. So so yes, I think it's important to have a relational container and it's important to encourage people to experiment with. That's why movement, you know, go move. You know, see see what happens when you turn your head like this. Okay. What do I see? And what happens when I turn my head like this? Maybe I see something else. Well, how does that feel to know that? Just the movement of the head gives you a different thought. What's that like for you? And then that question of what's that like for you? Where are you feeling it? And to, uh, really let people know. No. When I ask you, I'm really asking a question. I'm really interested in your experience. And, um, let's try expanding your experience to see and and to encourage people to go back, you know, therapy happens, what, once, twice a week, maybe once every other week. Um, you know, one hour, you know, now it's a 45 minute hour. I don't do that. I don't believe in 45 minute hours, but but, you know, it's a small amount of time. And you know, it's it's not on.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
You're not going to put your problems on the shelf. They go out the door with you or your questions. Not everything's a problem or challenges. So the movement continues. And so it becomes it becomes a, you know, it's like a moebius therapy, you know, and in a moebius, you know, you meet yourself coming and going and the and the idea is to, to gain confidence and value for yourself. You know, I was discussing with a colleague the other day and, and, um, we were talking about one of the most important things that a therapist can do is witness. Witness someone's progress. And and I also add being a cheerleader. It's the smallest thing because it's the language of paradox. The small things are big and the big things are often small. And so it's my pleasure to say. Oh, you said that. Wow. You know, you remember six weeks ago you wouldn't have even dared to say anything. Mm. Well, that's the that is the attachment system, as it should have been. Right. Little support. Not enough, but just not too much, but just enough. And this is a big part of therapy, not holding on to someone. I don't believe that therapy should be a national pastime. You know, on the other hand, you need to stay with it enough so that you can witness your own growth and and have somebody there when somebody perhaps wasn't there before for you. So that's that's how I look at it.

Daniel Aaron:
That's that's beautiful I love that. Well and and I'll reflect back in a way my, my experience is very much related to that in my work as a coach. Two of the things that you said are so much a part of my experience. One is when when I'm with a client and they say something, you know, especially when they're not trying to say something, when they're just, you know, casually speaking, oh, this is what's going on. It's like in in every sentence I hear 12 things that are like, oh, that's important, that's important, that's important. Because when we're relaxed, just as you said, the the unconscious speaks and you know, and we and if we're listening well, you know, in the roles we're playing then we have access to, you know, to, to the, to the mass of the iceberg that's under the surface that's really going to affect things. So I love that you brought that forward in terms of the language. And the other is there's a great leadership principle. I'm sure you've heard it that goes something like this. Nobody nobody knows. Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. And in my, my work, you know, when I first started and this is going back three decades, when I first started working with with students and clients, I was so much about, here's what you do and this is what you do and you know, and at but it didn't really occur to me then it's become more and more prevalent for me. How important, as you said, being a cheerleader or, you know, being someone that encourages, loves and encourages and reflects back someone's magnificence and and it's astounding to me, the more I do that, the more the less I feel like I need to say, well, you know, here's some advice or this is what you do. Like when people realize how amazing they are, a lot starts happening on its own. Um, so that's been, for me, just a fantastic discovery. And you gave me a new lens on that in terms of Yeah that a lot of us really missed out on proper attachment parenting or early conditioning, and that's probably why it's so important and valuable. Now, um, does that make sense? Yeah.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, the word attachment gets so many definitions. And that thing attachment parenting is. So let me set this straight. So the attachment is a system that is not active all the time. Um, if you're a parent, if first of all, the attachment system belongs to the child. Bonding is what the parent does. The parent is supposed to be, you know, proximate, you know, close by, close enough to hear that the kid needs you, um, emotionally accessible and, um, attuned. Now, it doesn't always work that way. Right? So, um, you know, that attunement is something if if, for instance, we had a parent that, um, that they're more attuned to their own needs. And they they they're the child comes with, you know, I need the and they say, well, but you know, you don't need that. Look what I have, we're going to do what, what I need. Um, then then the child doesn't become attuned to their own needs. And I think one of the, you know, one of the things that happens is as that attachment system, um, transforms from, um, actual touch and, and proximity and, you know, we, we, we, we spend more and more time away and what, you know, and as we, as the hippocampus begins to be able to store memory, um, that attachment system that was very much, you know, where are you, mom? Um, becomes mental representation. And so we have these imprints and, and brain maps and, and all it takes is one piece of small sensory input to get the nervous system organized in. Oh, I know what that is. And this is how we react to that. And you know, and so that's a big part of what what we're unraveling identifying and changing in therapy. But you have to bring once again the body back into it. And so you know I can I, you know, I, I, you can ask me a question and I can say oh yeah, yeah. That, that absolutely agree with you. Do I really am. I um, you know, and maybe my shoulders are coming forward a little bit and, and you know, and I'm, I don't know how I feel about that.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Well, yeah, I don't know. You know, now as a, as a somatic movement person. I'm watching that body. Tell me something else. And instead of having a big, long discussion about it, I would say, you know, just for a second feel where where your weight is. You know, you feel what you're sitting on. Where is your weight? You know where your sit bones are. Just see if you can just. Just move back until you hit your sit. Bones. Oh, yeah, well that's fine. So what happened when you did that? What happened to your spine and your back? Your shoulders? And your head. Just look. Are you looking at the same thing you were looking at two minutes ago? Oh, no. I'm not. How does that feel? What feels different. That feels open. You know it's not nice. Then I'd say maybe. Well, just put your shoulder blades together a little bit. We'll fill your head. Come up. Maybe I'd say something like, hi. When did you get here? You know Welcome. And and I don't have to do a big lecture and I don't. The discovery. The discovery is in the synchronicity. Oh, and when you pick your head up. Hey, somebody else is there. I'll say anything else. And then if I can just hold the quiet place, that void where now the brain is reorganizing and and learning something different, then then the connections begin to happen that I would never know about. So I need to hear it from the person in front of me. And so that's how the body intertwines with talking. And, you know, I mean, we're we're a little confined here because we're confined to a to a to a screen. Right. But in, in the actual doing of, of therapy, in the actual actual place, we would get up and move. You know, it's like, enough talking. Let's move. And then all kinds of things come up. It's really interesting. But. We very often find ourselves trapped in what I would call the a piece of geometry. The geometry of movement.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
And that's not my my wording. It's the wording of, uh, Ellen Goldman, who is a, uh, a therapist and an author. And and we were working the other day on the diagonal of movement, which means, you know, it has it has movement words to it, which I won't use right now. But, you know, it's like, you know, it's like up there, it's like, oh, this is what I would love this, but it's never going to happen. You know, it's like, but I really want it. But no, they're not not going to be, you know, and I'm going back and forth and I and this is where do people come to therapy I tried this, I tried this, I tried this and I see seem to be seem to be coming up with the same results. I seem to be I can't, you know, I can't think of what else to do. Well. If you're always looking here and you're always looking there and you're just working the diagonal, you're working in dimensions, I'm ironing. I'm. The irony is I'm looking for a point and I think I know what that's supposed to look like. It doesn't look like that. Oh, I go into disappointment. I go into anger. Well, maybe I'll look for it again. Well, I go back to the same place. Oh, well, maybe it's over there, but I'm still on a diagonal, so what can I how can I help somebody with that? I just tell them to keep on pointing and then take their hands and and make believe they're in a room. In a cube. Right. And they and and here's another part and push this part. How about this. And what's, what's here, what's in front of you and what's in back. And you've now now I'm in planes. Now I'm in vertical planes and horizontal table planes and I'm in sagittal planes and I'm not here. Oh, there's other things to do. Oh, maybe. Maybe I could do this. Maybe I could just go forward and see what's in front of me. And then people hear themselves saying things like that. You know, and you can see it on their faces.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
So using the movement to evoke language, using the language to to pair with movement. We start to. Settle and and come to, uh, into, into synchrony with the conflicts within. Which is starting point of solving the conflicts external to us, right? You know, so that that's how that that kind of meshes together. You can see it's not it's not starting a sentence here and finishing here. And now you got it. Take notes. Will be a test in ten minutes. Not going to happen if you if you pay attention to your own body. And you begin to see how somebody else. Works, you know. Did you say something? Did did they move forward? Are they trying to connect with you? Mm. You know, you know about you know, I mean, NLP, it's, you know, rapport. Right. Neuro linguistic programing, you know, but somebody does this you you you kind of do this, you know, and it makes them feel comfortable. You know that's part of coaching. Right. Well you know it is. It is actually a very small part of this. Because if you're there and I'm, you know, I'm like, uh, yeah, talk to me. Where'd you go? Where'd you go? I'm right here.

Daniel Aaron:
Beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, there's there's so much, uh, richness in what you're talking about that, um, you know, I'm aware for you and I, having some similarities to our backgrounds makes a lot of sense. Not necessarily obvious for everyone else. As you were speaking just then, I thought of a couple things. Uh, I'll mess up this reference, but it was a, um. Gosh, one of the great Russian playwrights. Maybe it was Chekhov. There's a line in one of one of his, um. Plays. That said. Oh, it's almost there. Somebody the character famous character said, uh, so and so lived a short distance from his body. Right. Um, and I remember, like, reading that in high school and being like, what are they talking about? I don't get it, you know? And then later when I, um, realized, like, oh, I've been outside of my body when I got into my first movement with martial arts and yoga and realizing, like, wow, I've just like I have not been present in my body and how important that became. And I and I forget now because I've been immersed in, in worlds of of movement and yoga and martial arts for years, that there's still a lot of the population that is not inhabiting their body. And there's, there's and let me clarify, because that might sound weird. Who's not really present in the body, like, you know, of course they're they're using it and moving around. Um, but there's this primacy of the head that's so popular and common, right? People just living in the thought forms. And then and you described a little bit, um, what happens when the speech is incongruent from the, the bodily truth or the truth as it's expressed in the body? And, you know, I thought of Doctor Paul Ekman and his great research about the emotions of the face and how microexpressions always show what's going on in the inside. And, you know, and you referred to it a little bit in terms of the wisdom of body language. Right? When you reference, you could say yes, but if you're shaking your head, then probably some part of you is not saying yes. Um, so you know, and I know part of I'm understanding that part of the way you work with, with clients, when people come to you and they've got challenges or goals or issues, whatever they're working with, part of what you do is, well, there'll be some talking, but there's also, you know, get up and move.

Daniel Aaron:
And you just gave that great example of, well, what happens if you, you know, you shift back a little bit and oh, somebody's here. Now that wasn't present a minute ago. Well, here's a question though, for for anyone in our audience who might not have the wonderful opportunity to come work with you in person in New York. Uh, who is saying? Yeah, I'm kind of getting the feeling there's more to this body. There's more wisdom here to somatic movement as a therapy. How can people engage with it? What can they do on their own to start taking advantage of of this wisdom?

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Well, um, big question. Um, I think that if someone is looking for a therapist in person, that that, um, you know, any of the trauma pieces, um, sensory motor psychotherapy, somatic experiencing, um, that those are good places to start. But, you know, it doesn't mean that everything is trauma. As a matter of fact, there's also disruption of the of the attachment system in childhood doesn't have to be trauma. Um, but whatever it is, we're trying to put the pieces back together, and, you know, how how do you do that? Well, you know, first of all, it's, you know, and I live in New York. Right. Good luck here. You have to stop for a moment. Just stop. You know, I think that one thing you can do when you feel yourself getting into, uh, a tizzy about something, you know, and in your thoughts are running away from you. If you can just remember to stop and just check your body, just do a body scan. It's like, just turn your focus inward and and see where tension is in your body. And you will be very surprised that the minute you actually identify a point of tension, it will change. And, you know, it's it's always the easiest thing always is to notice your breathing. A lot of times people will hold their breath intermittently and not realize it. How am I breathing? You know, when I first started working with people, I go, okay, so what's what's your breathing like? And they go, normal. Well, okay. Normal for okay. What's normal for you? You know, and then then, you know, it's like, put your hand here and take a breath. Feel that collarbone move. No, do it again because that's where your lungs come up to. Really? You know, to to do that, to do, to do yoga if you can to um, to, to do Pilates is a wonderful exercise. But exercise is a good way to, to feel your body and, and get to know your body. But when we do somatic therapy, we're talking about context. Because without context, just getting in touch with your body. Does not tell you how your body will react in a certain set of circumstances.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
And it is, um, difficult when you first starting out to realize this stuff, when you, when you, you know, you get retraumatized or you're in PTSD or something's happening to actually remember the tools you have or what you can do. You know, I think the one of the definitions of a mature adult is that, uh, we we can we can self regulate. We know we have resources and we also know when to reach out and ask for help and ask, ask for, um, ask for a hand. And when we get what we need to say, thank you and come back and not think we have to hang on to this person for the rest of our lives. That's why I say, you know, therapy is isn't a national pastime. Um, very often I will people will come to me who have been in therapy for, you know, 15, 20, 25 years sometimes, you know, and and they, you know, just like and I and I feel like something I'm not quite getting it. Well, you have to go to the roots. You have to look at the patterning. And that patterning is right here. It's it really is. But it takes time. Takes time. It's it's fascinating. I think curiosity is the is the best, best thing that anybody can cultivate and allow, you know.

Daniel Aaron:
Well, there's a old saying. You may have heard that, uh, curiosity killed the cat.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Uh, yeah, I'll buy that one.

Daniel Aaron:
I'm with you. I love your curiosity, your love of learning, and, you know. And I'll highlight what one of the things you just said, which I think is brilliant there. And it's so simple, like something that everybody has access to is the wisdom of their own body and their awareness. So the incredible value of just stopping for a moment, just pausing in the language, there's a word called pratyahara, which means withdrawal of the senses. And these days, more than ever, that's so important because we're just we're constantly bombarded with so much input. And if we can not if we can, if we choose to pause sometimes and say, okay, just hold on a second, you know, and really close our eyes or not and tune in. And I love that you said, you know, the awareness is you didn't say these words, but instantly transformative. As soon as we become aware of a place of tension, well, it's it's going to shift. And so that's that's powerful. Um, so as time's flying along, I want to check in with you, because one of the things that, um, that you have been into and work with and researched is past life. Right? And you work as a doing past life regression, I think. Did I get that right? Yeah.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Aaron:
Right. And and this is an area that again like for me, I didn't grow up with any awareness of well one multiple lives, past lives, any of that that came to me later on. And um, and it came through me in sort of a dramatic way, which I'll say maybe say after. But would you, just in case people aren't, aren't aware of what past life regression means, um, you know, what got you into that and what is it and why is it important?

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Okay. That's it. Only those 15 questions. Okay. Uh, well, um, I love the past life process. I, um, truthfully, you can you can sometimes get to something a lot quicker just through looking at a movement, a posture and a gesture. But that past life piece and, you know, it's so it's so is compatible with the jungians because Jungian we, you know, Jungians love stories. Their stories. Right. And and there's a lot to it. Um, the unconscious doesn't like direct speech. It likes, uh, you know, indirect. It likes, uh, metaphor and analogy. And, um, I met, uh, Roger Woolgar. Oh, I don't know, in 19. 98, 97, 98, something like that. And, um, it was right after I had done all of this hypnotherapy training and supervising and creating a practice and, uh, and working with the body within hypnotherapy. And so Roger Walker came along and he, um, talked about, um, the body's role in, in past life therapy and, you know, regression, the word regression really gets a bad rap because everybody thinks, oh, going back, well, what do I have to go back for? And what's this got to do with the present? And it's not, you know, it's past life. But he he actually ended up, uh, calling his work deep memory process. And it really is deep memory. Now we're talking about intergenerational trauma. And in the movement world, Doctor Judith Kestenberg, who was a doctor and psychoanalyst and and created her own movement profile along with her friend Anna Freud, um, talked about how trauma in the mother is not only transmitted from with from uh, in the crossing the blood brain barrier in utero with with adrenaline. Uh, and cortisol, but it is also transmitted through breathing patterns. Mm. So, you know, I mean, you know, you're sitting in in you're sitting with somebody and and they start doing this, they start taking a breath and talking like this, and they take another breath and they, you know, and on the on the exhale they're talking and then they're talking like, and you start to tighten in your body. Right. And, and so there are all kinds of things that happen. So when you do the past life work, Roger created um, uh, a, a protocol that said you have three doorways you can go in through the language.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
You can go in through the emotion and you can also go in through a body part. And so, you know, if you have somebody who, um. Uh, is telling a story. And. I will interview them and I'll. And I'll. Take out some sentences that they have said that talks about, uh, how they describe the thing they want to work on, the mystery in their life or, you know, what they're feeling. You know, I don't feel like I belong in this family or I can't figure out how I got here or, you know, I've I have blue eyes. And everybody else in my family has brown eyes or, you know, whatever they're talking about. And and you pull out the language that has energy to it. I can't it's the best I can do for you. But, you know, you just, you know, or they're repeating it or something and you get a 3 or 4 sentences. And you can go in with that. You tell somebody to close their eyes and repeat those sentences, and the energy of those sentences revolve in telling a story. Somebody comes in with with a physical ailment or a deformity or something, a birth. Something that that they've had or and you go in through that and the story emerges. It. You can also go in through an emotion. If somebody gets very emotional. You can go in through that emotion, follow that emotion in, because the emotion is really the, the, the flashlight into what's really going on. So. You don't have to go through a big, you know, hypnosis piece. You can follow that repetition, because repeating something again and again will put you in another brainwave state. Mm. Following the story and my asking questions. Um, brings someone to what the dilemma was in that lifetime. And the and part of the process is saying, okay, you know, how did you die and to and to actually have them move, you know. Well, I'm, you know, I, I'm, I'm a kid and I'm playing ball. Well, show me, uh, you know, move your hand. Show me, show me playing ball. Okay. You know, you're going through your.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Okay, now you're going to go through your death. All right? Show me going through your death. Now you're in a place. And so Roger integrated Tibetan Buddhism into this process. This is very clever guy. And he said, okay, now you're in the Bardo. That place in between. Well, not all of the soul goes to the Bardo. It's just the unfinished piece. You know. So once again, I just take a sidebar here and say, you know, well, what is this got to do with my life here? Well, how what are we doing in therapy? We are learning to process the unprocessed and the most, um, prolific piece of unprocessed. Anything that we have, I don't care where you are, is grief. The unprocessed grief leads us to do many things so that we don't have to feel the loss. We don't have to feel the powerlessness of loss. But until we can actually accept that and finish through and understand that there is repair. And so this is the powerful piece of, of the past life process, is that when you are in the bardo and you say, you know, I never got a chance to, you know, say goodbye to my mother, or I never got a chance to tell these soldiers that invaded our land that what you did and how you you know. And so. Okay, tell them now. And there is something about. Well, having your eyes closed and being in that story, that eliminates time. You know, you can go two hours doing this and people will get up and it'll they'll say, I seems like I just laid down. Mm. So you lose the timelessness in the brain and you are actually working with the story. And it does have an effect. Totally. What's virtual reality, you know? Same thing, you know, meet me on the holodeck. You know, if you're a Star Trek fan, let me put that. That is what's going on. But adding the body and moving to it with in with it, it was was a brilliant piece. So that was the first that was actually one of the first pieces I ever had about, you know, if you have an emotion and you have a cognitive thought, then then ask what's going on in the body.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
If you have a pain in the body or a sensation, then ask what the emotion is. You know, so they are all connected. And speaking of connected, then that spiritual place is where we go beyond words and beyond, um, gaining information through the filter of our, uh, language producing rational brain. You know, for a while I used to go around thinking, asking myself, I know I have a left brain for a reason, but I'm doing all this right brain stuff. Why do I need a left brain? And I realized, oh, to write stuff down and to be able to put words to it. Of course, that's a very important thing. But that the revelation of who we are, what affected us. You know, and what affects the world is, is something that is very much a part of our knowledge base.

Daniel Aaron:
So. Yeah. Beautiful. I'm with you. And as you say, it reminds me of one of my favorite modalities. Family constellations. Yes. Which is, you know, similar in the sense that, well, if we've not acknowledged or taken care of or dealt with something in the past, well, it's it's still affecting us. And if we go back and, you know, pay attention, integrate, uh, give voice to then that changes, that changes the present in the future. Um, so there's so much more we could say on that. Let me pause, though, and say, because again, time's ticking by here. Uh, Talia, is there anything that I haven't asked you or anything that you especially want to bring forward while, you know, while we have the chance here?

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Well, I, um, I think the only thing I can add is the the recent research I've embarked upon with a couple of colleagues. And that is the importance of the birth process itself. And um, as I mentioned earlier, it was a real revelation to me. Um. That to as to what? Actually going through a physical process of rebirth. Of course, this was the Biodynamics model. There are other models, but they all, you know, uh, coalesce around a central theme here. That how often it shows up in, in our daily lives and, and in terms of limitations and, and and beginning impulses that don't get completed. And it. I think it is such a an important lens to be able to look through. And I'm very excited about the work that I and my colleagues are going to be doing. And, uh, we we are kind of we're looking at what we did. We're looking at other a couple of other models and we're putting together what, uh, what we think we want to add and expand on. And, uh, we'll be doing that around the world hopefully. Uh, but I but I think that that, you know, it's not just, oh, you know, here you are. And, you know, the most important thing that I think is how you are received. Mm. And I, you know, and and when I think about therapy and and what are we what do we want from it. We want to be received. Mhm. And um boy it starts there.

Daniel Aaron:
You know, that's beautiful. I love that, you know, the more, the more I grow in my work. Uh, as a coach and a teacher. And in my own research, the more I see that. And it's not just me seeing this, it's well documented that potentially the most important part in any healing, in any good therapeutic relationship and maybe in, in any thriving life is the relationships that have love and valuing built into them. Right? That quality of what what the therapist or the coach or the healer brings to it. You know, of course the techniques matter and having the, you know, the the right questions to ask, uh, all those things matter, though, that just the importance of the basic element of caring. So I love that you brought that about how you are received being such an important part of it. Um, and for me, go ahead. You want to say something?

Dr. Talia Shafir:
No, I was going to say and touch and movement, gesture and posture are all a part of how one communicates, um, what you're receiving, how much of it you're receiving, and what you can receive of yourself. You know, it's it's kind of I when I teach, I'm always mindful. And most of the time I say this, you know, you know, I'm, I'm the teacher, but I can't really teach you anything. All I can do is create an environment for in which you will learn. You have the opportunity to learn should you, you know, Mission impossible, should you wish to accept it and take it from there as a stepping stone to. Learn your own. Keep on learning, you know. Don't stop just because the teacher said so. You know, come back after recess, right?

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah, well, and there's a great saying that all learning is self learning. Right. And and to me that's one of the greatest discoveries. And I think the most important part of a vibrant life is to have, like the curiosity that you so well model and that that constant desire to and activity around learning and growing, um, keeps us alive and vital and and getting better at everything we care about.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
You know, I wrote a piece, uh, there's a somatic writing collective, which is a really interesting challenge. Um, and, uh, I wrote a piece called the, you know, the transformational grammar, a generative grammar of, of movement. And the very last line is what I think really, um, encapsulates how we do learn. And and what I said was how I learned is what I learned. Um. And a lot of people think it's the opposite. Well, what I learned is, you know, I learned how to do it, know how you learned it is what you learned and which says that there are patterns you can earn your your security. Just because it didn't happen then doesn't mean it won't happen now. You can earn your security and you can repattern. But repatterning is physical as well. And to to actually be aware of the various body and muscle activations, but movements as well as they blend into the maturation process psychologically is really important. So that's that. That would be the thing I would want to emphasize here. It's not. Yeah. It's not just the technique. It's not just oh you said that. Oh now do this, you know. No, it's it's okay. Now say it. Maybe not without words. Now say it again. What is your body say? You know. Yeah.

Daniel Aaron:
All right. Well, we're up against the clock here. So I want to ask you one final question, if I may. It's the big question. It's the impossible question. Um, would that be okay?

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Sure.

Daniel Aaron:
So, because I say it's impossible because you've got so much experience, so much knowledge, so much wisdom. Um, to boil it down, like I'm asking you to do here is is impossible, though if you did have to, you know, distill everything that you know about creating vibrancy to say to our audience, what is the one piece of advice or the one suggestion you have on how to create a vibrant life? What would you say to that?

Dr. Talia Shafir:
Don't stop. This, of course, is after I just said you have to stop for a moment, but stop for a moment. But don't stop. Don't let somebody's idea of how old you are, uh, what gender you are. What? You know what? What a level of education you are, where you live in the world. Decide for you that you need to stop. Don't stop.

Daniel Aaron:
That's great. That's great. Um. Well, beautiful. I love that, and I'm 100% with you and Talia. Thank you so much. Not just for taking the time to be with us, but for, you know, this amazing amount of work and learning, uh, and devotion to supporting people that you've done over these years. Right? You've really cultivated such, uh, a body of, of wisdom and experience. And that is what allows you to come here and share so much in such a short time. So thank you for being just that model of vibrancy and for sharing so generously with us.

Dr. Talia Shafir:
It's been a pleasure, and thank you for the opportunity.

Daniel Aaron:
Uh, it's, uh, it's great to have you here and and y'all, um, audience friends, whether you again, are with us live or by rebroadcast. Thank you so much. Because you have an interest in creating more vibrancy and life beyond that, you are actually doing something about it. You're taking some time out to learn create new patterns in your brain. And so my inquiry, my request for you, my command, if I may be so bold, is don't just take this as entertainment. Choose one thing, do one thing. So much that Talia offered in the last hour is valuable. Choose something and experiment with it. Put it into practice in your life again. If you would like some support, please reach out. Daniel at Daniel Aaron Comm. Let's have a conversation and know that this work you're doing, this understanding, this putting into place for your life to increase its vibrancy. It's not just you that benefits, it benefits the whole world. You're doing something beautiful for everybody. We are all connected. So y'all, thank you again so much for tuning in. Please be with us soon. Again, we got another amazing show coming up soon. Aloha y'all. Mahalo for tuning in to the Art of Vibrant Living show y'all! I'm Daniel Aaron and may you live with great vibrancy.

Sonix is the world’s most advanced automated transcription, translation, and subtitling platform. Fast, accurate, and affordable.

Automatically convert your mp4 files to text (txt file), Microsoft Word (docx file), and SubRip Subtitle (srt file) in minutes.

Sonix has many features that you'd love including transcribe multiple languages, share transcripts, enterprise-grade admin tools, generate automated summaries powered by AI, and easily transcribe your Zoom meetings. Try Sonix for free today.