Special Guest Expert - Jill Sawchuk: Video automatically transcribed by Sonix

Special Guest Expert - Jill Sawchuk: this mp4 video file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Daniel Aaron:
What does it take to create a vibrant, thriving life? First, the sad news is that Thoreau was right most people are leading quiet lives of desperation, lacking in meaning, fulfillment, and vitality. But we choose more. We choose to create extraordinary lives and the art of vibrant living. Show entertains you with inspiration, empowerment and education to create your life into a masterpiece. It's time. Let's vibe up. Aloha, y'all. Daniel Aaron here, your host. And this is the Art of Vibrant Living show. Thank you for joining. Whether you're here with us live or by rebroadcast, we got an amazing show today for you, a fantastic, phenomenal woman. As our guest. I'll tell you about her in a moment. And what are you doing here? Why are you here? What? Because I'm guessing I don't know. But, you know, you feel somewhere inside you that your life can be even more of a masterpiece. Or if you don't feel like it's a masterpiece yet, that you can create it, that. So this show is all about, yes, entertaining you, but more importantly, educating and empowering you to live your most vibrant, thriving life. So my request and suggestion for you is today. Soak it in. Good. Make a commitment though to do something with this. You're going to get some gold, some beautiful nuggets here today. I know there is wisdom on its way to you. It means very little though, unless you do something with it. So please commit to yourself that you'll do something with this. And on that note, here's where the wisdom comes from. Today. Our guest, my guest is Jill Sawchuck. I might have mispronounced her name. Sorry. I'll get a correction in a moment. And she's been teaching yoga for more than 25 years. And and in this case, yoga with the big Y. Like pure yoga. True yoga. That's more than just moving the body. I'll let her tell you more about that distinction in a moment. Right. Um, she teaches online classes, retreats locally where she is in, uh, near Vancouver. So exciting to have Jill with us today. Thank you so much for being here, Jill.

Jill Sawchuk:
Thank you Danielle. What a great introduction. I love everything that you had to say and your whole intro. Yes to all of that.

Daniel Aaron:
Right on. Yeah. Well, you know, I know for me, having been into yoga a long time and that was one of my first really like, uh, powerful tools. And I know you've used the word tool. I've seen that, like, part of your mission is to give people tools for me. When I had this divine whack upside the head and I said, gosh, I don't know anything about how to live. Well, because I didn't that wasn't part of my background. Yoga became such a huge part of that. Um, so but and for our audience, who doesn't necessarily know you yet for those folks, how what can you tell us about how did you get here? What what prompted you to be living this life that you're living now and the work you're doing?

Jill Sawchuk:
Yeah, it's a good question. I truly believe that. This is why I was sent here. I think from a really young age, I, you know, there were these seeds planted. My mom did yoga. And as a kid, I would go with her to these yoga classes in the 70s. And I don't think I was doing yoga with her, but I was there, you know, getting the the seeds planted. And when my mom went back to work, so stopped doing yoga for a bit. And then it was my dad that actually sent us to like a six week community course of yoga. And I just remembered how much I loved it and and what it did for me. And it was really from that point that I was seeking this kind of wisdom that yoga gives us. And. Along the way. You know, as I was seeking, asking questions, just the teacher showed up. You know, I took three trips to India, and I, I found an amazing teacher here in North America that I've been studying with for 18 years. And gosh, there's so many things that led to where I am. But I think the long and short of it is. I've been sent here to keep these teachings alive. And they have been alive for, you know, countless years, maybe for sure, 2000. But some people would say ten, and maybe they're just inherently, you know, part of the wisdom that we can tap into. And, and I think I've been sent to just keep it going.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah, well, I can feel that in you. Your your love for it and desire to commitment to bringing something more than just moving the body around is, is apparent. And and I alluded to that earlier in my introducing you that, you know, yoga with a big Y. And um, so would you say more about what that distinction means to you if that's relevant?

Jill Sawchuk:
Yeah. And, you know, I never like to judge what other people are doing. I think, you know, whatever yoga you're doing, it's great. Right? It's a I think all yoga and all yoga teachers and all yoga styles at least, are to some degree helping us to connect into the body, which can only be good. But I think what's happened a lot in the West is that we've taken our culture of like competitiveness or consumerism and ambition, and a lot of the time we lose track of we get really caught up in the physicality of it, you know, striving farther in the pose and trying harder and sweating more and looking for the six pack and the biceps and, you know, and yoga will give you a beautiful body, right? If you keep practicing yoga postures because the body is beautiful inherently. Right. But, um, I think to some degree what's lacking in the Western version of yoga, like kind of the drop in version, is that we haven't necessarily slowed down enough. Once we get into these poses or these postures to really tap into more of our inner world and, and see those different, um, energetic bodies that are at play, the, you know, the mental body and the emotional body and the bliss body or however you want to describe them. But we're so much more than the physical body and. I think our Western culture has, you know, created such separation in these different aspects of ourselves. We tend to, when we get into a yoga studio, think we're there for like the physical. That's not to say that. I mean, you know, I know that saying that I'll get a lot of pushback of people who are doing drop in yoga at studios and getting a lot of benefit from it. So I think that's great. I just think there's always, um, that if you really get deep into the the yogic philosophy, you'll see that the path has a much more to do with unity of mind, body, spirit than it does just a practice of physical posture. So I hope when people get into the practice of yoga that they they don't stop at just the physical practice, right? I think that's the entry point. And then hopefully you find a teacher or a guide that's going to continue to guide you to, you know, those deeper levels of of awareness.

Daniel Aaron:
Beautifully said. I'm with you. And, um, having taught yoga a lot, uh, from, uh, years ago. And still sometimes now, like, I always celebrate whatever gets anybody in the door, whatever the reason is for joining. Fantastic. Right. That's beautiful. And and there's more potentially. And to me, it's always one of the great ironies of yoga is it's at least the way we most often think of it is it's so physically oriented, yet really it's about going beyond the body, right? It's about using the body to get to something else. So I'm curious then, because I imagine, um, I imagine that some people hearing what you're saying will say, oh, okay. So there's more than than just getting my body in shape and sweating and getting flexible, which is all good. I'm with you on that. But what what would you say? Like what is the more that's available. What what's the draw beyond that.

Jill Sawchuk:
Mhm. Mhm. I love this question. I think when we do start to turn our attention inward, you know we're using the posture to. To anchor ourselves to recognize, okay, there's the physical body. Let's just take something like warrior pose. So I think everybody knows it. There's my front foot, there's my back foot. Maybe there's my arms to the sky or my arms out. And the the idea of a posture, right, is that you're you're becoming steady in it and you're beginning to observe yourself, your breath, your body in this form and in the shape. And I think if you if you stay long enough and you continue to witness what's going on, you'll also be observing. Well, there's the body and there's the breath and there's my mind. Right. Which is like, when are we going to be done this? Like, oh, that guy over there is breathing too loud or like, you know, whatever the distraction of the mind is and you start to see, oh, there's the mind. And if you know you're in the posture, you're watching your body, you're watching your breath, you're watching your thoughts. And then I think in time again, this is the going deeper, right? You realize like, what is this other part of me observing all of that? Because you can observe your. Thoughts. You can observe your body and then you start to recognize, I think, hey, uh, there's another part of me. And I would say that's the piece where you, you start to touch into the realm of spirit or or, you know, our deeper essence. And I think in our modern culture, there is a lack of that connection to that. You know, we don't have a lot of opportunities to touch into that. So I think the practice is an opportunity to help us reconnect to to that thing that is a deeper, eternal part of us, connected to something much deeper. And that that allows us, gives us the opportunity to to recognize mind is not everything. Body is not everything. Our identification with with the thoughts, you know, we can free ourselves from that. Whatever we're thinking, it's not who we are or our body is not who we are. There's something, something deeper than that.

Daniel Aaron:
Yes. Well said. That's beautiful. I often think of like a yoga. You know, a yoga classroom, studio, um, the practice, the physical practice, being like a laboratory, right. And, you know, we go in there and then we get to discover, yeah, what's going on in my mind. And, you know, and I love that expression. The way we do one thing is the way we do everything. Mhm. And you know yoga invariably brings us challenges. And so the question always in some way is okay, well who am I in the midst of this challenge. What am I going to do in the midst of this. Because what we do there is what we will do in other places. So I'm I'm curious for you specifically, though, Jill, when you. Well, so you mentioned that you you were around yoga from an from a young age. Um, and did you, when you were young, did you ever have a period of resisting it because it was your mom's thing or, you know, how did you like how did you really get into it? Because it obviously at some point it like it became your thing. Right.

Jill Sawchuk:
Mhm. Well I mean yeah, my mom did yoga when I was very young and she had taken a break from working and then when she went back to work she stopped yoga. So it also in those years like in adolescence, it wasn't a part of her life, nor was it mine. And in those years I definitely. Feel like, yeah, there was a lack of anything that was grounding me to presence or connection to spirit. And I think I saw the fallout of that. You know, I was, um, experimenting with drinking and smoking and, you know, just hanging out with maybe the wrong crowd. I mean, I love them all. They're all, you know, we're all beautiful humans, but kind of getting into trouble. And I think through that also the experience of really kind of losing track of connection to, to my deeper self. When my father gave us that six week course and I went back to closing my eyes and feeling my breath, I think there was this clear experience of like, oh, this feels so amazing to be able to tap into, like the noise around me and the culture around me and what other people were doing which which wasn't nourishing me, you know, it wasn't feeding me. It was actually causing, I think, a lot of disturbance in my field. So to to go back into that experience, I think it was just so clear for me, like there's something inside of myself that can guide me in a much more profound and meaningful way than anything else that I was seeing outside of myself.

Daniel Aaron:
Beautiful. Yeah. And, you know, there's that concept in, in yoga philosophy called pratyahara, which usually it's translated as withdrawal of the senses, senses, which I remember the first time I heard that I was like withdrawal of the senses. What does that mean? You know? And then eventually I came to realize, like, oh, okay, the way I think of it, and I'm sort of setting this up to get your perspective on it is like it just it's so helpful at times to block out the outer world and all the stuff that's going on there, whether they're positive or negative, influences their influences. Right. And, and most of the 3D world, it's it's very seductive. You know, the physical world does tend to bring us away from awareness of the invisible world, I suppose, is one way of saying it. So how do you how do you relate to that concept of pratyahara? Is that something that you work with?

Jill Sawchuk:
Yeah, I mean, I think that's what a practice is, right? And it's such a gift because in our modern world, I don't think there are very, very many opportunities where we get to to close off or close out all of that stimulation. Right. We're always seeing the media, the social media, the phones, the screens, the movies, the magazines, the Netflix, you know, and people. And there's such constant noise around us. I think it's very rare that we're showing in any shape or form to close our eyes and, and quiet the outside world. And, and I think it's not. Once we do that, once we are given the opportunity to, you know, to to shut out, shut down, even just for 5 or 10 minutes, all of this stimulation that comes through our senses. I think what we end up seeing again is are inside of ourselves. Wow. There's this whole, um, world, this whole rich experience that we can tap into that's connected to something bigger, something greater that is so much more interesting. And. Delightful, joyful than like anything that like the ice cream or the show or like, you know, those things are fun and, you know, they give you a sense of pleasure, but that internal connection to this deeper place or to that bigger source energy, it's like it beats all the tasty food and beautiful sunsets and like, those things are great, but there's something inside of us, I think that's even more beautiful. And I think we're missing we're missing that in our culture. I mean, you know, I feel very lucky where I live here on Vancouver Island because there's a ton of nature, right? Like I walk out my door and I can go for a walk in the forest or, you know, drive five minutes and and get down to the river. And I think, you know, when we lived in places where there was more nature, we would also have these kinds of experiences inherently, you know, it would be quiet, there would be less stimulation from technology or, you know, human created noise. Um, I just think that our modern world, that most people where they're living, we, we don't have access to those quiet places where we can just listen to. To something. More profound. We're inundated with, yeah, I don't know, all this divisive. Political, you know, all the stuff that we're all always ranting and raving about.

Daniel Aaron:
Yes, it is a noisier world than ever before. All signs point to that increasing, right? Marketers and advertisers are finding more and more ways to get our attention all the time. So I'm curious then clearly, and you said this like what? What can be part of the yoga process? The yoga practice is that is actually a time and maybe it's 15 minutes or 2 hours or whatever the length is to, you know, step out of the madness for a little while. Um, so in addition to that, or aside from that, though, what how do you help people or what do you do? Um, in order to to remember that that bigger, invisible world that's got so much beauty and delight in it, um, in the midst of so much pressure, does that make sense? What I'm asking.

Jill Sawchuk:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think you've you've kind of named it already. I think the key is daily practice. So every single day built into my routine. The first thing I do when I get up is my practice. So it comes before anything else, before I attend to any daily outside responsibilities. And I think that's what is key. That's what I'm teaching to everybody in any program or any time that I'm speaking with somebody who wants to know, like, how can I feel better in my mind, body or spirit, I'm suggesting that you take a minimum of 15 minutes, but if you can only find five, that would be even. Okay. But some amount of time every day where you do choose to connect to yourself inwardly. And I think the challenge is developing that discipline. But I also really believe that if we simplify the idea of what it is, you know, it literally is just whether it's a yoga mat or not. But starting our day where we're choosing to connect with ourselves first, to listen to the breath, to find where the head is sitting, to feel our own hands or feel our own feet. To recognize what's going on inside of us. To let go of what is not serving us. The tension, I think, you know, just it can be that simple. And once we start to do that, sometimes I think in the beginning we might need a guide or a framework or some holding. But once we get, you know, maybe through 15 days of that, 30 days of that. Like there's no way you're not going to keep doing it. Like, because you just realize you can tap into this part of you that that will nourish you, that will lift you up, that will empower you. So I think it's just getting going, you know, that's really important. And keep it simple.

Daniel Aaron:
I love that. Well, uh, may I play Angel's advocate for a moment with you? Yeah.

Jill Sawchuk:
Of course.

Daniel Aaron:
Right. Um, and I'll preface it by saying, uh, for me, uh, the first part of the day, the rituals, the protocol, I call it my my supreme self sacrament. Right. That time is precious and that's, uh, vital. And it's something that I share and teach with all of my clients and students also. And to play Angel's advocate. But I don't have time, you know? I get so much to do. How? How can I do that if I, you know, I got the time. There's not enough time for that. What are you talking about? What do you say to that?

Jill Sawchuk:
Well, you know, I'm pretty direct with the people that I work with. Like, I like to call BS on people. Like, I might just say, like, how much time are you going to spend on Facebook today? Or social media, or watching Netflix or moaning and bitching and complaining to your friend or, you know, or or like neurotically dusting your the corner of your room that nobody's ever going to like. Where can you catch some time back of things you're doing that really they're not serving you like we all have 24 hours in a day. I've been raising two children, running a full time business, spending time with my parents, involved in the community. You know, I find time like, I'm not a I'm not a superwoman or like, a superhuman. I'm just like everybody else. And and I can commiserate. Like, I think the, the bigger problem is not time. You know, I think the heart of it is. Can you. Put yourself first. Can you care about yourself enough that you're going to choose to do this thing that you know is going to make you feel better, it's going to make you healthier in your mind and body and more connected to this spirit part of you, which is going to feed you energy and inspiration. Do you care about yourself enough to choose you? And that's I think the bigger question is like, not do we have time? But can you admit that you put everything else first? And that actually, in reality, you're more important than you're giving yourself credit for and that. All we're asking is to give ourselves 15 minutes a day. I think I've done the math on it. I think it's 1% of our day. So it's like you can serve your family later. Like you can do all those things you're not. We're not asking anybody to only attend to themselves. Just 15 minutes. You know, it's 15 minutes. And if you think 15 minutes is too much, then I would challenge you. It's like, well, do two then. Do two and you'll start to see again. It's not the time, right? Because if you can't give yourself two minutes to withdraw your senses and witness your inner world, it's not about time, right? It's about the challenge that will you allow yourself to step away from all the other demands of your life and attend to what's going on inside of you? And I think if people are challenged like that, then, yeah, nobody can say they don't have two minutes. The bigger thing is that we we're not used to doing that.

Daniel Aaron:
Perfect. Well, you you kind of already nipped this one in the bud. Um, though, if I continue to play Angel's advocate for a moment. And this. I'm being silly about it, though. These are things that I actually do hear from people and contend with, um, doing, like what you're describing doing. Isn't that selfish.

Jill Sawchuk:
Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah I have these conversations with people all the time. I was just actually having this conversation about what love is. And I think, you know when we start to question for ourselves what is love. What is self love. If you start to ask these questions and give yourself even just a little bit of time, maybe you you withhold your doubt or your argument, even just for one day. You know, maybe you you allow yourself just to experiment. You know, maybe you're going to be right. Maybe this is selfish, maybe this is pointless, but you're just doing an experiment. And you just do give yourself, I don't know. Yeah, whatever you can. Five minutes. And you, you start to look inward. I think what we start to see is truth. Like the truth is we have been conditioned, as we were alluding to earlier in this conversation, our mind, what we're typically. A slave to is our thinking, right? Like all these things you're saying, like, I don't have time. This is selfish. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Um, whatever you whatever you're hearing in your mind that's thinking. But currently these people that are saying these things to themselves, that's all they know, right? We only know, mind. It's like whatever I'm hearing in my mind, well, that's the truth. I believe this, and therefore it's true. And I think that's that's the leap. That's the step that you just have to have a little experience with. It's like, just observe that. Just just give yourself a few minutes to recognize the difference between thinking. Which is happening. I like to tell people that too. Like trying to tell the brain to stop thinking would be like telling the eyes to stop seeing. It's not going to happen. Your brain thinks it's okay, normal. Let's not judge that, but observe that that is thinking what is thought. Get really clear about that. And that's a task in itself, right? Like, I think you need a lot of courage to just ask yourself this question. Like, can I observe thought? Can I witness that?

Jill Sawchuk:
And then when you start to see it. That's that moment where you realize like, oh my goodness. That is not everything happening in here. I can witness it, I can observe it. And then there's these other things going on here higher wisdom, deeper insight, deeper connection, breath, spaciousness, release of tension. And I think, you know, you just need to get past somehow some which way. You have to get past the point where your brain is like the only thing that the forefront, you know, it's like the loudest thing. You have to somehow give yourself a chance to recognize there's something other than those thoughts, because those thoughts will always get in the way. Those thoughts are always going to be there. Still, to this day, I have those thoughts. I get up sometimes and I think like I don't have time. I have like emails I should answer and like, oh, I'm just going to sit on the couch with my dog a little bit. Like, those thoughts never go away.

Daniel Aaron:
All right. Cool. I'm with you. I think I've exhausted my angels advocate role for the moment. Um, and challenging on the level that, um, obviously already a convert myself. Because I know the power, though I do recognize you use the word discipline a few minutes ago. I recognize that for me, when I first got into yoga, you know, three decades ago, and I was overweight and the physical practice was so hard for me and embarrassing it, it was like I had to push myself every day to get on the mat. Um, and, you know, cajole myself and trick myself and, and for me, then discipline was really like somehow getting myself to do the thing that I didn't want to do, but I knew would be good for me if I did it, and I would feel better afterwards. But even now, like as I say, that, I'm like, I'm exhausted just from describing the process that was there. So given that you used the word discipline before, um, how do you relate to that and how do you help people with overcoming that if they can relate to that?

Jill Sawchuk:
Yeah. Oh my goodness. So valid what you're saying and so real right. Like if you're listening to this and you're like yeah, that's what I'm experiencing. It's too tough. Like I don't have the energy, I don't have the discipline, I don't have the motivation. I try, but I fail and then I feel worse. And I mean, I think that's a part of the process for everybody when they get started. And I would say the key to to crossing over that challenge, maybe not for everybody, but I would say for 99% of people, what is key is. Having some support, having some guidance, whether it's a coach, a teacher, a community, a framework, a program. Because in the beginning it isn't easy. There's no denying it. Nobody starts like, oh, it's easy. I just get down on my mat every day. No big deal. I don't know that that that's true for anybody. So I think in that beginning phase of developing the discipline, it's much easier if you have somebody that's gone before you a little bit farther ahead of you on the path and is there, I don't know if I want to say holding your hand or cheerleading for you, holding you accountable, guiding you, supporting you, encouraging you, responding to your challenges, providing guidance. I think that's crucial. I think that's why people come to me. Um, and I think, you know, that's what my teachers have done for me. Is. They've shown the way. They've they've helped me see that those challenges are normal. It's not my fault. I'm not, you know, defective because it's challenging or, you know, I had the struggles in the beginning. I think doing it with a witness or a guide or a space holder is part of what you need to get going. And then I think if you have a good teacher or a good guide, they're empowering you. They're leading you to a place where you can do it on your own, but in the beginning to need a little bit of help. Like for sure, for sure, 100%. Uh.

Daniel Aaron:
I can't believe it. I'm going back into Angel's advocate again. So what about the thought form that can occur? I know, because I've had it before. I should be able to do this on my own. I don't I shouldn't have to rely on some kind of teacher. Right. Um, have you ever encountered that thought form?

Jill Sawchuk:
Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? You know, this, um. And again, I would. I would defer back to our modern culture. It's so fascinating when you really start to look at what we're taught, what we're educated to believe, you know, that that we should be able to do everything on our own. You know, I, I, um, feel so grateful. I've. I've been invited into this. I call, call it my sweat lodge family. And it's been such a profound and healing experience for me because I was new to this ceremony and. And when I got there to the first one, everybody had a role. You know, everybody was doing something, whether it was laying the cedar boughs or it was smudging or it was preparing the berries, or it was sweeping the lodge or, you know, everybody was given a role and we were all participating together to create this ceremony or this moment where we could. He'll, you know, do healing work. And then even in the the experience in the sweat lodge, it was a collective space holding like sitting there alone. I don't think any one of us could have done that alone. You know, there were people bringing in the rocks. There was people, um, splashing the water. There were people singing and drumming, and each one of us, um, was participating in that, and I think. Traditionally, we didn't do things alone like we were, you know, we this was not a part of humanity. And I think it's a very new and a very, um, I don't know, just not it's not. Realistic. We are social beings. We are. We are meant to be in connection. We are meant to be in relationship with each other. And I just think that that feeling of like, I should do it alone or I have to do it alone. It's a very new and dysfunctional thought pattern, born out of a very Yeah, imbalanced kind of, um, culture.

Daniel Aaron:
Well said. Yes. Okay, cool. So in case anybody's not aware, um, what Jill was describing with a sweat lodge, Native American tradition, ceremony, like, kind of like building a igloo type structure and then going through a fire and heat and stones inside there. It's a purification process that's beautiful and challenging. And and to your point specifically, would be really hard to do on one's own from even just setting it up, let alone enduring it. Um, and my own answer to my angels advocacy is. One should is never very useful for any of us, you know, shooting upon ourselves or shooting upon others. The other is, uh, personally, I'm an optimist. I say whatever works as long as it's not hurting somebody if it works better for me, and if it's so grateful that somehow I had the the luck to realize in the early days, like, hey, it works better for me if I'm around people, I go to classes, I have a teacher that allowed me to keep going, whereas if I was on my own, I probably wouldn't have. But let me let me stop talking because I saw you with. You're about to say something excitedly. What is it?

Jill Sawchuk:
I just think that you're right on the money. It's like you could do it on your own. I guess if you want to, like. Really? You know, like, uh, carry this, like, burden of having to figure it all out on your own and, uh, process everything by yourself. But. Why do we have that feeling? I just think it's a great question. Why do we have that feeling that we have to do this in isolation? And I also know from my own experience that a lot of my learning, like still to this day, is just in relationship with my students like that. We're I don't think we're that different. So when you're when you're doing this in community or you're doing this with another individual, I think what you start to see is this is normal, your challenges or your thought patterns. This is normal. This is a part of humanity. So I think a lot of that, you know, that shame of that self criticism or that self-talk that we might think like, oh, it's just me, I'm a loser. Like, I can't do anything right that's going on for everybody. You know, that kind of self-doubt or self-talk exists for everybody. Those challenges are there for everybody. And if you don't do this kind of work in relationship, I think you might be under the impression like you're the only one struggling. You're the only one who has to, um, free themselves from this mental. Pattern. And again, once you get on the path, like I think part of it and I just want to speak to this a little bit, the beginning of the path is for sure. You know, I would say, although I think there's lots of ups and downs, it's not a linear path. And I would say it's a lifelong path. Um, but in the beginning there, there is this we are recognizing these things that go on inside of us that that self-talk or those patterns, pain patterns are protective mechanisms, coping mechanisms. You know, maybe the the untruths we've been telling ourselves, the destructive behavior we're engaging in, like that's usually part of the beginning of it, right? It's like, and that's uncomfortable.

Jill Sawchuk:
Like that's not going to be fun to to recognize, like, oh man, it's kind of messy in here, right? My life's a bit messy. It's kind of Yeah out of order and imbalanced. And I think in especially in that period, it's really crucial to have a community or a guide or a support system that's saying like, yeah, that might be true. And that's okay. You know, that that is what is. And. You know you have choice. You can. Even though things are a bit funky or out of order. Like let's just start to. Release the things that aren't serving us one at a time. No pressure, no hurry, no shame, no judgment, no criticism. But I think without somebody kind of helping to say, like, come on, like we can do this. Let's just pick one thing. Like, let's just focus on this one thing. Oh, lighter. Easier. Okay. Otherwise, I think unless you have somebody kind of helping to guide you about, you know, how you can kind of peel off this pressure, this make sense of this mess. It does overwhelm. I think inherently it's like, oh, oh my God, this is too intense. This is too uncomfortable, this is too overwhelming. And then we just typically that's what I see is if people don't get support, they just revert back to like, I'll do this later. Or like I don't want to do this altogether. I think we need help. You know, we need encouragement and we need guidance, especially in the beginning.

Daniel Aaron:
Beautiful. Well said. I love it. So you touched on something? A couple things right back when I used to lead yoga teacher trainings. One of the things I would say at the very beginning of the training is all this stuff we are doing is to help us to fall in love with ourselves. Right. And you mentioned earlier, uh, the concept of self love. Now, when I look back at me saying that 20 something years ago, I think, man, I was on track, but I didn't know much about that, um, relative to now. And I and I imagine 20 years from now, I'll look back at this moment and say something similar. Um, and when we were talking about discipline and time, you know, that that concept of self love came up. So it's is not it's it's again, it's a conversation that's not happening everywhere. And I think it's provocative for people, including the practices that can relate to self love. So what's your thinking or feeling around self love and its importance or its absence, its presence.

Jill Sawchuk:
So such a crucial conversation and I my general opinion would be. That's what we're all looking for. That's what we all are here to do. And. It's a road. It's not easy, I mean, even. This morning, I was, um, steaming with my girlfriend, and we were talking about this exact conversation, and I'm. I'm still learning about self love. Like, I love myself way more than I did 25 years ago, that's for sure. But even today, I was telling her, you know, I'm always doing my practice and learning and in relationship. I still have my teacher and, um, I was I was describing this revelation that I had recently that my idea of love. The very core origin neural network pathway that I have for love is that. I need to give to other people. Like I need to make sure other people are getting what they want and what they need. And that's what love is like. If. If the person I'm in relationship with is getting their needs met, that means I love them and that's love. And yesterday, even, you know, I'm making this soup. And my son, my 18 year old son was sitting by the fire. He just got home from a big trip. He's going to a job fair tomorrow, but he's in between these things, right? And I was just watching my own mental process thanks to the practice. Right? Thanks to the awareness that develops from the practice, I'm making soup. I've already had a full day. I'm conscious of my son sitting in front of the fire and in my head. I'm thinking like, oh, I wish he was helping me. It's like, why do I have to make dinner? He's just sitting there. And then, because I've been learning about what self love is, I had this opportunity to really consider, like, why not ask him for some help, even though that wasn't the pattern? Because my old patterns, my old thing was like, if I make soup for my son, that's love, right? Like, if I do something for him, that means I love him. And I'm like, I'm learning every day, Daniel. Every day.

Jill Sawchuk:
And I'm realizing, like, yeah, part of my neurology equation of love that I learned from my love bonds through, like, that's a whole podcast in itself, but is that I have to make sure other people are happy. That's what love is. And I'm I'm peeling off that conditioning, you know, so I actually I asked him into the kitchen, gave him a task to help me make this soup. And it was so such a beautiful, rich learning for both of us. Like I realized, like I can ask for help, I needed help, I wanted help, I asked for help. And it not only made me feel like, oh my God, jelly, you're winning. Like you're you are loving yourself more and more and more, breaking these patterns of like, I have to do everything for everybody. But the side benefit. I was like, oh my goodness. It reminded me of that sweat lodge experience. Like it actually brought him into an experience of belonging, like participating value. And then when my daughter came home from school, like the three of us sat down and had this delicious soup, and I told her, you know, like Yeah Bodi helped me make this, you know, and it was like this, this huge, this huge learning, beautiful experience, I think, for everybody. And, and the point of the story is I think. We have to consider, I think what we've been taught like how we've again, ideas, thinking, like what we're telling ourselves love is and question it. Really question it. Because I think a lot of us have formed ideas about love that are just not true. And I think self love is crucial. And most of us, like we've been alluding to this whole call, right? Most of us barely have a relationship with ourselves. You know, most of us are out there serving others, our jobs, our families, or we're relaxing, but we're having a relationship with Netflix or whatever. It is, the phone. But most of us don't even have a relationship with ourselves. So when you start to. Give yourself the gift of relating to yourself, these 5 or 15 or ten minutes a day, whatever you're doing, where you're going, oh, hello me.

Jill Sawchuk:
And you realize like, oh my gosh, yeah, I'm really saying mean things to myself. And oh, I'm holding a lot of tension and putting a lot of pressure and oh my gosh, I'm tired. And all the things that we find out when we turn inside. We realize actually what we're doing is being quite mean to ourselves, you know? So I think, yeah, this whole path, it's not easy. But if you have the courage to begin, I think that's the hardest part is just that beginning part. And then though you, you know, as you peel off these habits or, you know, release these ideas, these ways of thinking, you do slowly get to that place where you do start to to engage with yourself and more loving, kind, compassionate, harmonious ways. And then I think you, you know, you have the capacity to really love others.

Daniel Aaron:
Nice. Thank you. Awesome. Well, and, uh, so now I'm going to, uh, bring up a comment from, uh, Steve said, uh, self-love. I used to think of, uh, view as selfish. We spoke about this a little bit before, and you just said something directly about it self-love, relating to loving others. And as you were speaking a moment ago, I thought, you know, your previous wiring said love is doing for others such that they feel good or some variation of that. And I thought, wow, that's that. That puts you in such a weak position and I mean you because we've all done that, I'm sure, in a weak position because it depends on on them. Right. Like I can't feel love unless they feel loved. I think of like, my own mother, uh, you know, poor thing was doing the best she could all the time, but she just had such holes in her bucket. No matter what any of us gave to her, she didn't feel loved. And that, you know, gave me a skewed perspective on the beginning. So. But bringing it around, what would you say to to what Steve said about self love being viewed as selfish.

Jill Sawchuk:
Mhm mhm. Super common. Super common. Right. I think a lot of us hold that um, perspective, at least until we realize it's not really serving anybody. I mean, I can only speak from my own experience, but I can tell you that I also thought that and for many, many, many, many years, I was selflessly serving everybody else. And I can tell you from my own experience what that led to, what that created inside of me was anger and resentment. And I can tell you that as that anger and resentment built, I was not very loving towards others. So through my own life and learning, I realized actually when I can be loving to others is when my own needs and wants are fulfilled. And it's only then that I'm really open enough to give to others. Otherwise it's this kind of like false or fake kindness service that, you know, I'm. I'm, um, sacrificing my own happiness for somebody else thinking that's going to lead somewhere. And in reality, what it led to was actually Yeah animosity, conflict, strain, stress, unrealistic expectations for everybody like you speak of. I think very similar, I think, and I don't know if it's only women. I think men fall into it too, obviously. But I think as a mother, maybe as a father, I've never I mean, I haven't done that this time around, but I think, yeah, our concept of loving and serving everybody else first, actually, in time, if there isn't the balance of, you know, feeding or filling our own bucket, it actually causes friction in relationships.

Daniel Aaron:
So any downside to to that? No. Just kidding. Your your your list of negative repercussions of, uh, being selfless in that case, um, is. Yeah. It's striking. So you've done the experiment, um, that we don't have to do it anymore. And I'm with you any any kind of giving or loving, which isn't really loving. Right? If it's coming out of obligation or thinking we should do that inherently carries with it some kind of poison resentment to it, which is really the opposite of it. So beautiful. Maybe that's enough for us to say about, well, actually, no. Let's say let's ask. Let me ask you one more thing, because I've been working with this a lot with for myself and with clients. And one of the biggest things that I find is. Uh, so much of people's challenge or what's in the way of them creating what they want? Yeah, I mean, strategies and education and those things matter. But a bigger chunk of it, I'm finding, is people's self doubt and worry and lack of value. You know, that that stuff that keeps us trapped in this haze and fog. Um, so what do you how do you do it? Or how do you work with people in terms of how to create self love?

Jill Sawchuk:
Mhm mhm. Well I think my process that I feel is so beneficial again not my process but what I'm teaching people is that. If we can develop a practice that. Call it yoga, knowing that when I say that, it means that we we turn our attention inward and we're doing a physical mindfulness practice. I think the first step in in releasing those thoughts or those negative self talk, accessing more, that feeling of self love is to first step is to recognize. These are thoughts. This is the thing happening up here in the brain. And it's just one aspect of ourselves and it's not everything. Because I don't think you can get out of your brain, through your brain, you know, it's like it's like a dog chasing its tail. So I think the key is to develop a connection to your body through the body. You start being able to be able to observe that's body. These are fingers that's ahead. Those are eyes. Those are feet on the floor. That's breath. And I'm thinking you need that that connection to something other than thoughts I think to to stretch the space. Where you can become a witness to the thinking, and then you can start to tap into the opportunity to choose your thoughts without that space or that, um, that detachment from thoughts. I think thoughts are just on a loop, like it's going to be really difficult to convince yourself through your thoughts that your thoughts are your thoughts and they are not the right thoughts and the thoughts. You know, it's like, ah, I think you need to, you know, anchor into something that's not thoughts. So that you can. Yeah, just so that you can form enough space between the next thought. It's like. Oh. Are. A choice. Otherwise I think it's too, you know, immediate. They're like running too fast.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, another way of what you're saying is the importance of awareness or being able to witness. And meditation. Yoga so vital for that? Um, and and it's worth bringing up again. You pointed out earlier. Um, trying to get the mind to stop thinking is, uh, crazy foolish, right? Uh, the way Byron Katie says it. Dogs bark, cats meow. Minds think that's what they do. So it's not our practice isn't to get the mind to stop, though, it's to realize that, oh, I can actually watch it on its hamster wheel for a minute. And that allows me to get a little awareness and perspective. Right? And I mean, the studies vary, but how many of the thoughts are our own anyway? Very few. Right. There's just these things coming through and nothing wrong unless we believe them. Right? Unless we especially if we believe the painful ones. So. Cool. Okay. Time's flying. Oh, no. Jill. Um, so anything that I haven't asked you about that you want to mention.

Jill Sawchuk:
Well, I love that you brought up Byron Katie. She's definitely one of the, um, masters, I think of rewriting, limiting beliefs, rewriting thoughts. So if you don't know her work, I would tune into it. She's done an exceptional job of creating a path for people that's free, online, accessible. You can Google her. You can read her books. She has PDFs. She's doing amazing work in the world. Um, and I love in your intro. You know, I think that's the key. Daniel is like, if anybody's listening to this again, we're listening to this with our ears, and then these messages are getting sent up to our brain, and then our brain is like, dee dee dee dee dee. This all make sense? I, I completely agree, this is all good stuff. And again, if you if all you ever do is think about it, I think you're missing out on accessing. That opportunity to really tap into that deeper experience beyond your mind. And that's where I so hope that all of us as a species, as a humanity starts to remember that we we can access. Source energy. Uh, you know, we can access connection to something bigger than ourselves that's so much more beautiful and expansive than thought. And so if you're hearing this and and you, you want to tap into something that's beyond the, uh, chatter of the mind, take action. Take an action. Take a step. Take two minutes. Take five minutes. Take three minutes. You know, I have, um, a checklist on my website. I'm sure you have free resources on your website that where people can can, you know, just, uh, download a ten minute relaxation video where just tonight, lay down, be guided, you know, turn your attention inside. Just try it. Check it out. You know, drop the excuses that you can't take an action. Um. Step outside, go to the river. Look at the sky. You know, do something that will help you step away from just thinking about what we're talking about. And go experience something beyond thinking your mind.

Daniel Aaron:
Perfect. Well said. And you kind of got into my next question too. Which is best way to contact you. Is that through your site yoga Jill. Com and that's with one l your yoga j I l.com.

Jill Sawchuk:
Yeah I'm on Facebook too. You can find me there Jill Sawchuck with two L's. Um, and yeah, if it's not me, you know, there's lots of people, I think. That have done their work and that are there to support and guide. So whether it's me or Danielle or, you know, any anybody that attracts you that you can see is a living example of wellbeing thriving. You know, your intro, it just says it all. It's like that's possible for anybody. And I think just take a step like decide right now, not later. Close the show and take one step. Take one little step. Do something in the in that direction of your dreams and living well.

Daniel Aaron:
Perfect. Okay, so last question. It's the big question. It's the impossible question. You've got so much experience and knowledge. If I forced you to boil it all down to one thing, and you had one thing to tell our audience that would help them to live their most vibrant, thriving life, what's that one thing you would say?

Jill Sawchuk:
Create a morning practice that taps you into your body and your breath.

Daniel Aaron:
Create a morning practice that taps you into your body and your breath. Hallelujah. Amen. Yes. Thank you so much. And Jill, thank you for your your great heart. You know, your I can feel you're an example of that leadership maxim. Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. Right? And you do know a lot. You've got vast experience. So thank you for cultivating all that wisdom. And thanks for taking the time to be with us and share it here today.

Jill Sawchuk:
Thank you so much, Danielle. And for everybody who's listening. Thank you.

Daniel Aaron:
Yeah, beautiful. And y'all in the audience, thank you for joining us. You've heard it a few times. Please do more than just take it in, apply something because you absolutely deserve a vibrant, thriving life. Tune in again soon. We got an amazing show coming up around the corner and until we see each other again, please make your life a masterpiece. Aloha y'all! Mahalo for tuning in to the Art of Vibrant Living show y'all! I'm Daniel Aaron and may you live with great vibrancy.

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